Looking at getting a more accurate .223, suggestions?

[Cee Zee]

Savage 12 with Precision action and trigger, but then again, the rifle shoots better than I can

That's pretty much my experience. My 12 gets boring shooting inside of 300 yards because it's like it won't let me miss. It's so heavy it doesn't twitch when I do and it just lays right on the target. The trigger is very light too. It's like I think "shoot" instead of actually pulling the trigger. Sometimes I think it could shoot just fine without me.

 

[RainDodger]

There's (of course) going to be an exception to every rule. The man wants a bolt! Let him buy a bolt! I find something very rewarding when I shoot tiny groups with a bolt gun.

I also have a blast when I take my 20" Rock River AR out, with the Leupold Mark 4, 8.5 - 25X scope on it. I know for a fact that in the right hands (not necessarily mine) it can do 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I can do about an inch with my hand loads and a 60 grain Sierra MatchKing, and that's not with any of those cheater, lead-weighted bench vises. Nope.

Bolts are just as much fun though. Just slower. I have friends that would vote for a Savage also.

 

[Reloadron]

I'm thinking of picking up something either bolt action or single shot with a nice heavy barrel for mostly just range fun.

Now why is it that 90% of the threads like this can clearly start with a bolt action and within a few post someone is pitching an AR? Never could quite figure that out.

Ron

 

[ROAshooter]

CZ ,,,,you will never regret

 

[swampcrawler]

CZ ,,,,you will never regret

Actually I am apparently the only person on earth who did buy a cz ans did regret it lol. My 527 carbine 7.62x39 was somewhat less than optimal.

 

[jmr40]

I know AR's can shoot great but from what I hear one that shoots like you describe costs more than $800.

Quote:
equally barreled AR's
I have a 26" bull barrel on my Savage 12. That would be pretty extreme for an AR.

I've not seen any of the mid priced AR's that wouldn't shoot well under 1 MOA with quality ammo. Can't say about any of the $500 rifles, but lots of them in the $800-$1,000 price range are every bit as accurate as most bolt rifles. He isn't going to find a bolt rifle at $800 that will beat an $800 AR either.

If you're attempting to get groups that measure in the .1's or .2's you'll likely need a custom bolt rifle, but for $800 I guarantee he will find an AR that will beat what he has.

Now why is it that 90% of the threads like this can clearly start with a bolt action and within a few post someone is pitching an AR? Never could quite figure that out.

Just throwing out options that he may have never considered. He didn't specifically say no AR's. And I also gave him an excellent option for a bolt rifle in my post. Many people are grateful for someone pointing out something they hadn't considered. Some apparently aren't aware that an AR can be every bit as accurate as a typical bolt rifle in the same price range.

 

[Gtscotty]

I think you can probably work with the Howa, do a little load work and come up with something it likes. If you do move on though, I will say I held a nice Tikka .223 with a 1 in 8 twist today. It was stainless and fluted at Sportsman's Warehouse for $699, but I bet you could find a cheaper blued version for under $600.

 

[redneck2]

I know AR's can shoot great but from what I hear one that shoots like you describe costs more than $800

Here you go. All set up, ready to run. At your price. And I'd strongly suspect it will shoot sub MOA. I already have one or I would consider it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=777877

 

[Cee Zee]

lots of them in the $800-$1,000 price range are every bit as accurate as most bolt rifles. He isn't going to find a bolt rifle at $800 that will beat an $800 AR either.

Again that's not my experience. I've shot lots of AR's and they were not even close to being as accurate as my bolt action. That includes some AR-10's too BTW. YMMV.

 

[ROAshooter]

edit

 

[ROAshooter]

Actually I am apparently the only person on earth who did buy a cz ans did regret it lol. My 527 carbine 7.62x39 was somewhat less than optimal.

the topic was 223...not 7.62x39...
and you may be right....you may be the ONLY person on earth to buy a CZ and regret it

 

[loose noose]

I've got a much older Howa (Weatherby) in .223/ 1/12 twist, bolt action, with a 3X9 Weaver scope, that has consistently shot one hole groups using the 52grn. Hornady HP BT using IMR4198 at 100 yards. I've shot more coyotes using this rifle than I can count.

I've also got an AR-15 with a 20" bull barrel (1/7 twist) that will shoot the 62grn HP BT in Hornady using ACC 2230 powder equally as well, however it is very heavy and is generally used as a bench rest rifle. Therefore, I believe the old saying goes "different strokes for different folks".

 

[Ankeny]

I have a CZ 527 with 1 to 9 rifling and it does 1 moa or better.

I have had 3 CZ 527s ib .204 Ruger. Two of them are at the gunsmith having new barrels installed (shot out after 4,000 plus rounds). All three shot well under 1 moa with a variety of loads. I would expect the same from a .223. As mentioned, there are a variety of sub MOA rifles being produced on the AR 15 platform. I own two ARs that shoot very well. Of course, they are kind of expensive.

 

[Cee Zee]

I own two ARs that shoot very well. Of course, they are kind of expensive.

That's what I've heard a bunch of times. I think there isn't any doubt an AR can do great things but generally it isn't cheap to get one to that level. Again YMMV. Maybe things have changed.

 

[redneck2]

Ohhhhhh.....kaaaaaaaayyy.

Guess I need to post this again. $900 all set up, ready to go with a scope, extra mags, and a bipod

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=777877

So, mebbe I'm missing something, but this looks like the AR .223 that should fill the bill at the right price.

If you still want a bolt, I'd get a CZ but only because I have two that shoot sub MOA. I'm confident that there are others (Salvage, Howa) that will do as well, but I've never owned or shot either.

 

[MDI_Weapon]

Yes I do reload but haven't set up for 223 yet. And honestly iv only tried 3 types of factory ammo in my Howa. I'm thinking now of just getting it into a better stock and trigger and picking up dies and Components to see what I can get her to do.

Does your Howa not have the Howa Actuator Controlled Trigger system (HACT)? If it does, that is fairly easy to tune polish and lighten up. Easier than shelling out for a new trigger anyway. If you take your time and do it right, it will feel as good as any trigger you have felt.

Does your rifle have the Hogue overmolded stock without the aluminum block? If so, scrap it for a good laminated stock or a Bell and Carlson Medalist and then skim bed it to the action. Hogue overmolded stocks are not known for their accuracy enhancing characteristics...because they do not have any.

Does your rifle have the Nikko scope? If so, they are not great. Scrap it and get a better scope.

Have you tried higher quality ammo? If not try a box Federal match grade ammo or hand loads tuned to your rifle. Try a box with relatively light bullets, a box with mid-weight bullets and a box on the heavier end of the range. That will at least give you some idea what the rifle shoots well in terms of bullet weight. Twist alone often doesn't tell the full story - I have a 1:12 that shouldn't handle heavier .223 very well but it puts all of them on a penny at 100 yards.

Also, check the crown on your rifle. If it looks funky, have it recrowned with an 11 degree crown. This will often dramatically reduce group size on Howas.

Lastly, have you tried copper seasoning the bore? That is, not scrubbing all the copper out with copper solvent between trips to the range. Use a standard powder solvent but let the copper build up a little and see how the rifle responds to it. This will shrink the size of your groups with many bolt action rifles.

There is nothing at all wrong with a Howa 1500 action - the problem is usually with some of the other components bolted to it (flimsy Hogue stock and NIkko wandering zero scopes).

 

[greyling22]

I'm pretty sure that howa has a 1:12 twist rate. I have a mini mauser with a 1:12. Shoots great with most 50 grain handloads (0.5" +/- I haven't gotten anything 55grn or heavier to group 5 shots under 1.5", and most are closer to 2"

All that to say, if you like the gun, don't give up on it yet. you might have a how with an adjustable trigger. if so, this site might walk you through how to set it. if not, google is your friend. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/howa-trigger-adjustment-how-52584/

 

[socalbeachbum]

CZ527 M1 American

my CZ 527 M1 American 22" barrel with factory set trigger is under 3/4 MOA using match grade ammo. The single set trigger is great, puch it forward and it becomes a 16 oz trigger pull.

Helps a lot in accuracy. Mine is free floated by the factory. This is in .223 Rem.

 

[merrill]

If you want to save a few hundred dollars and still have a very accurate rifle, I recommend T/C Venture. Mine shoots three holes touching at 100 yds. and the trigger is easily adjusted without removing the stock. After rebate it cost~325$.

 

[tuj]

I've only shot a few bolt guns in .223rem but one of the ones I shot was a benchrest gun. I believe it was based on the Rem-722 action. It had a Timney trigger I believe and wore very nice glass. But the best I could get it to shoot was only about 1" groups at 100 yards.

The RRA AR I have will shoot sub-0.5MOA as I posted, using factory match ammo.

I'm not saying the AR vs. bolt has the AR winning every time. But companies like White Oak Precision are winning the hi-power game with them. Heck, I like bolts better myself generally. That doesn't mean David Tubb is using one; he's shooting an AR (or rather a custom AR-based gun).

David Tubb is arguably the best, and winningest, competitive rifleman in history. He has won (to date) a record eleven NRA National High Power Rifle Championship titles at Camp Perry, Ohio. That's four more than next best. In addition, David is an NRA Silhouette Rifle legend, having won nearly 30 open, individual National Championship titles in all four rifle categories. David has also won seven Sportsmen's Team Challenge Championships along with six NRA Long Range Rifle (600-1000 yd.) National Championships, including his latest win in 2011 during which he also won his second Wimbledon Cup.

 

[MDI_Weapon]

I'm pretty sure that howa has a 1:12 twist rate. I have a mini mauser with a 1:12. Shoots great with most 50 grain handloads (0.5" +/- I haven't gotten anything 55grn or heavier to group 5 shots under 1.5", and most are closer to 2"

All that to say, if you like the gun, don't give up on it yet. you might have a how with an adjustable trigger. if so, this site might walk you through how to set it. if not, google is your friend. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/howa-trigger-adjustment-how-52584/

That Howa may not have a 1:12 twist. All of the .223 barreled actions now listed In the Howa catalog from lightweight through heavy varmint in both blue and stainless are now 1:9 twist (nice move Howa), however, I am not sure when they switched their .223 lineup over to 1:9. Probably the only way to be certain would be the old cleaning rod rotation test. If he is shooting bullets at the lighter end of .223 and his barrel is a 1:9 twist like the newer Howas, that could certainly be part of the problem.
Time to break out the cleaning rod and a ruler and figure out the actual twist of the rifle in hand.

 

[Cee Zee]

Guess I need to post this again. $900 all set up, ready to go with a scope, extra mags, and a bipod

The listed budget didn't include a scope so IMO you're selling the OP short on quality of the rifle. There's a pretty substantial difference in a $500 rifle and scope and a $900 rifle with the scope as extra. There are great hunting rifles for $500 but target/varmint type rifles generally cost more because they have more technology and a higher level of technology. The quality of the barrels and the triggers especially go up with more money spent in that price range. Who knows what a person is really paying for but it does seem like $900 rifles and even better a used $1200 rifle sold for $900 is going to shoot better than a $500 AR because once you take a quality scope off that $900 AR you mentioned it's down to being a $500 rifle as you suggested. You didn't say what your scope was or at least I didn't see it.

But what I saw the OP ask for was a $800 rifle not including the scope. You can get a lot more rifle for another $300-$400.

 

[Damon555]

Don't discount the Savage rifles....They are very accurate for a factory rifle.

If I was doing it all over again I'd purchase one of these.....again (I sold my previous one due to a divorce)

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/78338

 

[TwoEyedJack]

I've had several .223 rifles over the years. My current champs are a Tikka T3 that shoots 3/4" for 5 shots @ 100 yards, about the same as my Ruger #1V. After extensive load development, neither holds a candle to an old Remington 788 I had in .222. That gun was as ugly as a fence post with a pipe bolted to it, but it shot in the .3s with no drama. I should have never traded it. I think my next .223 will be a .222.

 

[fotheringill]

Cee-Zee- I have a 30" barrel. THAT is heavy as hell.