Looking for a 30 06

[Gtscotty]

I find the no 30-06 idea nuts. I can't believe a guide would do that to his business. But anyhow you can get a great setup with $1700. And as plenty of others have stated a Leupold VX-2 or VX-3 is plenty of scope. I am still using a Bushnell 4200 3-9x40 on my '06 and have never felt the need for anything better. Have almost gone to a VX-3 a few times but stuck with the Bushnell because it had the Rainguard coating which definitey works. May have to get a VX-3. Then I would need another rifle for it! If I could find a good used one for a decent price I would get a Sako. Currently I have a Browning x-bolt and really like it. Light weight and VERY accurate. A rifle from any reliable manufacturer would work fine. Good luck in your hunt!!

I think you and I have matching rigs, my current .30-06 is a Stainless Stalker X-Bolt with a Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 on top. It's a great setup, light, ergonomic, fast and has held zero perfectly for hundreds of rounds and many hunts.

 

[RPRNY]

Most of us who haunt the gun forums like nice rifles. But the Big Trophy Colorado Elk was taken with an iron sighted Milsurp .30-40 Krag.

Elmer Keith liked the Krag for elk. Took my elk this past Fall in CO with 180 grs 30-06. Ideal elk cartridge. For Fall 2017 I am hunting with my 1898 manufactured Krag sporter and the 210 grs Lyman 311284.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Elmer Keith liked the Krag for elk. Took my elk this past Fall in CO with 180 grs 30-06. Ideal elk cartridge. For Fall 2017 I am hunting with my 1898 manufactured Krag sporter and the 210 grs Lyman 311284.

Now that is a very interesting post. Thanks for stating the facts. Big game can be taken cleanly with many calibers. I prefer the Sharps .45-110-500.

 

[RPRNY]

I prefer the Sharps .45-110-500.

Those Wyoming Brontosauri don't stand a chance!

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

And I know of a family who had one of their full-sized adult horses killed with a .22lr round. This was just outside of Casper Wyoming in the 80's.

900F

 

[cdb1]

Elmer Keith liked the Krag for elk. Took my elk this past Fall in CO with 180 grs 30-06. Ideal elk cartridge. For Fall 2017 I am hunting with my 1898 manufactured Krag sporter and the 210 grs Lyman 311284.

I've always heard Keith thought a 30-06 was marginal for deer. If so how could he like the 30-40 Krag for elk? Not trying to be difficult, just curious.

 

[Slamfire]

I cannot see going wrong with a 30-06, or even a 308 Winchester. Both rounds are proven on all herbivores on this continent. Big toothy things, maybe a 35 Whelen would be better.

I like the slick and smooth action of the M70 and the three position safety. I prefer the claw extractor as I can open the bolt and see if I have a round in the chamber, or easily remove the casing, with my finger . Push feed rifles with a spring loaded ejector, the damn round hits the bench next to me.

I don't see a need for real expensive scopes if the rifle is zero'd. One this vintage M70, I have a vintage 6 X Burris, the combination of which kept all shots in the ten ring at 300 yards. The primary function of a scope is to see what you are aiming at. Mill dots are fun, you can estimate hold off, this Burris scope was way before such things.

This is a FN PBR, has the old trigger, I hear the new FN M70's have a more precise trigger. This is in 308 Win, and out to 300 yards, it will stay in the ten ring. The stock is a nice grippy Hogue and you don't have to worry about getting the stock wet.

 

[RPRNY]

I've always heard Keith thought a 30-06 was marginal for deer. If so how could he like the 30-40 Krag for elk? Not trying to be difficult, just curious.

As I recall, early in "Sixguns", he talks in an aside about the 30-40 (although it may have been in "Hell, I Was There") and why, with its heavy for caliber 210 - 220 grs bullets, it was a good deer and elk round, speaking specifically about penetration. He famously became an advocate for 250 gr .33 cal on elk and feuded quite publicly with Jack O'Connor and his .270 Win love-affair. I was unaware of any absurd suggestion that the 30-06 was marginal for deer. Is it possible he said this about the 270 in aid of his feud with O'Connor?

 

[Slamfire]

Keith wrote a book in 1936 titled "Big Game Rifles and Cartridges". In it he says for the 30-06 "I have used it myself and also seen it used on most species of American game. It is a very fine cartridge within its limitations, but is also one of the most over rated cartridges on our entire list for actual game killing"

At the time, the 30-06 was probably the most popular cartridge due to it being the current service rifle cartridge. The Army Marksmanship programs and the National Matches were big, big, things for civilian shooters at the time. If you have never run into a psychopath, lucky you, but large organizations have all the behaviors of human psychopaths: highly manipulative, incredibly grandiose and self centered.

Given that the shooting community follows authority, and of course the authority of the 1930's is the Army Ordnance Corp, teaching the shooting community how in all things they are so brilliant and wise and all knowing, and how their products are so superior. I have read enough of Keith's books to come to the opinion he did not care for the pompous or fools. You can understand how Keith might get tired of hearing Army rah, rah from human "Parrots" repeating the Army line on why the 30-06 is the absolute greatest and most important cartridge in the whole wide world. At the time, high velocity expanding bullets had all sorts of failures. Keith had used those big, slow, soft lead bullets of blackpowder rifles, and those are exceptionally good and reliable killers, if you place the shots.

see: WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WOUND BALLISTICS LITERATURE, AND WHY http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html

I will bet Keith was tired of hearing all the the rah, rah about the 30-06, which orientated from the Army Ordnance Bureau, and how it conflicted with reality. I would have liked to known how he would have felt about this ad:



Why with Weatherby cartridges, if you miss, the animal dies just from the shock wave in the air! Whoopee!

 

[cdb1]

Thanks for clearing that up. Another myth debunked.

 

[DownInTheDark]

I'm going to be buying a 30 06 rifle this summer to be used for hunting deer and elk in Oregon. I'm overwhelmed by the options available. Some say Remington 700, others Winchester model 70, and then there's everything in between.
My budget is $1000 for the rifle and then about another $700 for the scope. So $1700 total package out the door.

Any suggestions as to why one rifle is better than the other?

Where abouts in Oregon? I spent 3 years in Pendleton for work and did some hunting out of Ukiah and Long Creek .

 

[BrocLuno]

Unless I'm wrong headed, the 30-06 was the descendant of the 30-03 ... That was an Army Ordnance cartridge that did not seem to do it all ... And that was a descendant of the 30-40 ... Set me straight if I'm wrong?

I'll bet in the 1930's the real king of the hill was the Winchester 30-30. The boys coming home from WW-I would have had exposure to the 06, but in a 9~10# battle rifle. Grabbing up a lever rifle must have been like grabbing a sports car

Conners and Kieth were magazine writers. Kieth had a military ordinance background. But they both had to have something new to say and sell. If Bell could pop an elephant with a 303 Brit, there is nothing wrong with an 06. And we have bullets today, they never dreamed of

All through the depression, lots of meat was harvested with a 22 - legally or otherwise. Folks have to eat. Talk to any retired Game Warden and they'll tell you how much is poached with 22 (and 556 today...). I know the stories from our ranch forefathers were all about 30-30 hunting. When an uncle got a 250 Savage 99, you'd a thought that Moses had received a new commandment. Still no 30-06 ...

Was not until after WW-II that we finally got an 06 on the ranch. A sporter conversion of a 1903-A3. Kicked like a mule. Everybody went back to the lever rifles. Then one run-in with a brown bear while deer hunting in the Sierra's made one uncle want to up the anti. But he did not reach for an 06, he bought a brand new Marlin lever in 35 Remington.

We had a 3/8" steel plate for the sighting range back-stop below the horse ring. It was inclined at 45* to put the bullets into the ground. The target board was a paper roll pallet of 2x8's. The 06 and the 35 would both go clean through that plate after traversing the 2x. 30-30 would not. We still hunted with the 30-30's mostly, unless going back up around the mining camps where we knew there were bears. Then one would pack that 35 lever. The 06 stayed home.

All but Pop. He toted his 300 Savage 99 all over the back country. Got his buck, field dressed it and drove home. The others would stay and camp if they'd bagged theirs. Fish some, gather goose berries, collect rose hips, anything to stay in the middling high country. Eventually everybody would go home. Annual rite of passage to serious fall/winter coming on...

I didn't hear much about 06's as a lad until the 1960's. By that time I'm a teenager and driving. So I go my own way (22's & 308 bolt). I didn't get real interested in 06's until my BIL shared the rifle his uncle gifted him left over from WW-II Coastal Defense Brigade. Seems Uncle did not want them back - Eddystone M1917... So I got one too, to play with. It's gone, but the odd 06 graces my door now and then.

I still rather hunt a 308, but that's just me. 22-250 or 410 for small stuff, 308 for bigger, or 7.7JAP (that's a whole nuther story ). Now all the uncles are gone. Their rifles have been distributed to the four winds. I may come into one or two from a cousin here or there ... I got my eye on that 1903-A3, and that 35 Marlin

 

[lastofthebreed]

What a great post! I guess the bottom line is to get the rifle and scope combo you want. With a $1700.00 budget, you will be well served with whatever you choose to spend your money on. FWIW, I owned a Model 70 FW in 270 WSM. A very accurate and deadly combo!

 

[mrbladedude]

Where abouts in Oregon? I spent 3 years in Pendleton for work and did some hunting out of Ukiah and Long Creek .

Staying in the Portland area due to work

 

[RPRNY]

Unless I'm wrong headed, the 30-06 was the descendant of the 30-03 ... That was an Army Ordnance cartridge that did not seem to do it all ... And that was a descendant of the 30-40 ... Set me straight if I'm wrong?

I enjoyed your remarks, thanks.

The 30-03 was completely unrelated to, although it succeded, the 30 US (30-40). The 30-40 was a rimmed cartridge designed almost certainly as a "mine's better" than the 303 Brit, the two being remarkably similar in contemporary design and performance. Teddy Roosevelt, then Colonel, went to war in Cuba armed with the 30-40 in the single lug Krag Joergensen rifle and went up against Spanish regulars armed with 7x57 Mausers. He did not enjoy the experience and was very vocal about the superior performance of the higher velocity 7mm bullets compared to the slower 220 gr round nose 30 cal bullets.

As President, he demanded the Krag be replaced and demanded it be replaced by the Mauser. Army Ordnance had other ideas, so they copied the Mauser. Indeed, the War Department made royalty payments on Mauser patent infringements in the Springfield 03 rifle up through WWI. Despite Roosevelt 's demands that the rifle use the 7x57 cartridge, Army Ordnance stuck with 30 cal and, arguably, designed a "mine's better" than the then newly preeminent military power: Germany. Thus, the rather poorly designed 30-03 cartridge, a large volume case saddled with a 220 grs round nose cupro nickel jacket soft point bullet at 2300 fps. It was crap. It caused throat erosion and pressure challenges for pre WWI metalurgy and had no real better trajectory than the 30-40 (which can be loaded to at least 308 Win performance in a strong rifle but was hekd back by the Krag bolt design).

In 1905, the Germans adopted the 153 gr spitzer bullet, and shortly thereafter, the 30-03 was redesigned by Army Ordnance with a very slightly shorter neck to fire a plain based fmj 150 gr spitzer at 2700 fps, slightly faster than the Patron S cartridge of the Germans... Thus, tge 30-06.

And not long after, as contemporary gun writer, Phil Sharpe, and others noted, the chattering classes became obsessed with velocity and thereafter with magnumitis. Meanwhile, thousands of Americans that had to put meat on the table - and had to do a lot if walking while at it - stuck with light handy lever guns in the very deadly 30-30 or economy minded 22 lr. We have several deer skins at the ancestral farm in VT, where the grandparents retreated during the Depression, taken with a Marlin 1892 (precursor to the Model 39) that I learned to shoot with and still have today.

 

[Edcnh]

Gtscotty
Great gun! Mine is a wooden stock X-Bolt hunter with "black" barrel. Glad to hear someone else has a Bushnell 4200 3-9x40.

 

[mrbladedude]

I've chosen to get the Winchester Model 70. Thanks to everyone who posted