Looking for a brush gun

[WisBorn]

By poor shot angles, do you mean through bone? Or just only hitting one lung or something?

It can be both or either. A front shoulder shot may result in just one lung, but can be effective at getting to the heart with the right angle.

 

[AJC1]

I heard it from the first camp, and that was what I was referring to. However, the second camp really makes more sense from an every day standpoint. You'll be wanting a smaller profile for moving around and aiming more often than you (should) need to be blasting through trees LOL

I would want something that could handle a twig or two if I didn't see it, but I think a small size would be at least as important.

I think a red dot sight or open sights are definitely the way I want to go. I've always liked open sights and lever guns, so I would be super happy with that combo.


Ok, so I thought Henry was the top of the line (outside some custom thing) for lever guns. Price wise, I don't see that, and everyone here sounds like they're only marginally better than Rossi (who I have no idea about, other than they're cheaper). Would there be a big difference between a Rossi to a Henry, to a Winchester or Marlin? I'm sure there's some difference, but is that going to show up in general hunting use? Or is it just that the Winchester is US made, and the others are foreign ot something? Basically, is it worth spending double to get a Winchester, or would a Rossi be just as good?

Someone mentioned .350 legend and .450 bushmaster. Are those modern rounds made for AR platforms? Or are they just something they shoved in there that works? (Sorry for mashing toes) but are they any more powerful than a .44 mag? I know the .300 blackout is good for sub-sonic and soft targets, but are those two any better for harder targets, like hogs with bones and thick hide?

The marlin, winchester war of who is better has been raging for a long time. I prefer a Marlin, and watching cleaning and breakdown videos will instantly show you the pistol caliber marlins disassemble for barrel cleaning with one screw in about a minute. If your hunting, rain, mud the world over, I would always buy the easy to clean gun. If your only going to own one, and your not hand loading, 44 would probably be my first choice. Second choice would be the Ole dirty thirty.

 

[Chief TC]

I'm with the folks that say .357 carbine. I have one in Henry lever action and it is popular for 50-100 yd encounters with hogs. .357 ammo is back down to decent prices for target ammo but I would get 180gr Buffalo Bore for thick skinned critters. This ammo moves out of a 16" barrel very fast - around 1700 fps. And if your eyes are good, you can use the standard sights and hit your target at 100 no problem.

 

[Sanderguy777]

A 450BM, 350L and 300blk were all tailor made for AR's. If you've got a normal AR already, all you need is an upper, and a mag or two.

300blk can be run subsonic, but with super sonic 123gr loads, it'll run close enough to 7.62x39 as to not make much of a difference.

450 Bushmaster is a considerably more powerful cartridge than 44mag. It gets up to 45-70 Trapdoor numbers for power.

350 Legend is running right along with 35 Remington's and 357 Maximums.

If you like to break shoulders and anchor them to the ground, the 450BM and 350L would be excellent if you don't need a super flat trajectory. Both should have plenty of energy and bullet mass to get through both front shoulders on the average deer with the proper selection of bullet.

Cool! Is .350L and .450BM pretty easy to find?

Brush gun on a budget. Ruger American Predator in 308.

Ruger American® Rifle Predator Bolt-Action Rifle Model 6974

ruger.com

Put a decent low powered optic on it with 1X to no more than 3X on the lower end and you have as good a brush gun as you could ask for. It is lightweight and compact to maneuver through brush. You can spend more if you like, but any accurate, short barreled bolt rifle in a moderately powerful cartridge is as good as it gets. And there is nothing special about 308, almost any similar cartridge that suits your fancy will work.

Forget rapid fire, it isn't important. Make the 1st shot count. In brush an animal can take 1-2 steps and you'll never see it again. And once mastered a bolt rifle is just as fast for AIMED repeat shots as anything else other than a semi-auto if you ever do need a repeat shot.

There is no such thing as "brush busting" bullets. Any bullet that hits brush will deflect. The key is to shoot through OPENINGS in the brush. Pinpoint accuracy and a flat trajectory are just as important at 40 yards as 400.

Most of the traditional lever guns and the cartridges designed for them are going to be 2-4 MOA guns that will have the bullet 2-3" above, then 2-3" below line of sight from the muzzle out to 150 yards. In an open field that is easy to account for, but when shooting at a deer 40 yards away with a softball sized opening in the brush to thread the bullet through that arched trajectory is more of a handicap than in the open.

Modern cartridges like 450 BM, 350 L, etc. have the same disadvantages. If you live somewhere that limits which cartridges you can use, they are certainly a more efficient choice than shotgun slugs or muzzle loading rifles. But given the option there are better choices.

A 308, or most any similar cartridge that shoots 1/2 to 1 MOA will keep your bullets no more than 1" above, or below your line of sight from the muzzle out to almost 150 yards making those shots through small openings possible.

You don't need much, if any magnification at typical brush hunting ranges. But a decent scope does 2 things. It is legal to shoot 30 minutes prior to sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset in most places. As much as one full hour in a few places. And deer move during those 30 minutes before sunrise and after sunset a lot. In a heavy canopy you can't see a deer without optics at that time. Plus, a scope will allow you to find those small openings to shoot through.

Ok, that sounds like a vote to just go with the 7mm Rem Mag I always used in Idaho. Just toss a better scope on it and call it a day.

Am I just crazy, or do some scopes have presets for different ranges? Like you can set it for 50 100, and 200 yards and just set it to those presets depending on the range. I suppose that doesn't help anything if you have brush between you at 100 yards, though... (I have a cheap Bushnell on that 7mm, so I know next to nothing about modern scopes LOL)

Something like this. Mossberg 464. 16" barrel 30-30.View attachment 1163150

NICE! I shot one of their .45-70s and it had less recoil than any other centerfire I've had the pleasure of plinking with. No idea what the model was, but it was fun!

I'll ditto this. I love my 30-30, but since you don’t reload, right now .308 is more plentiful on shelves and the American Predator is about the best budget deal out there.
If you look around, you can find Henry and Rossi 30-30 lever actions for under $1k. I'd go with 30-30 over 44mag unless you are limited to straight wall cartridges. 44mag is definitely harder to find on shelves these days than 30-30.

Good to know.

What JMR40 said!
Plus, if you go back to Idaho, you’ll be set there too!
My younger brother has hunted Alabama, Georgia, New Brunswick, Canada; Nevada, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Montana with his Winchester Model 70 featherweight in .308.
My best friend from Wyoming hunts with a Ruger M77 carbine in 7mm08 w/a 2-7x scope. He shoots elk and mule deer every year.

The notion of a “brush” buster, is a MYTH. A noted gunzine writer back in the early’80’s did a test of over a dozen different cartridges, ranging from .44mag, .30/30, .35Remington, .45/70, .22-250, .30/06, 7mm RemMag, .300winmag 6.5x55Swede, .375H&H, and .458mag. and some more I don’t remember.
His conclusion was tha NOTHING could be counted to reliable and consistently punch through brush/cover.
The best however were the 6.5x55, and 7mm RemMag with heavy for caliber bullets. With their fast twist rifling, and high gyroscopic stability, they better resisted deflection.
Other factors are:
1. How close the obstacle is relative to the shooter and target. The closer to the target, the less the deflection.
2. Construction of the bullets.
My favorite tree stand, and stalking rifle is a Marlin M336C in .35Rem. But has become “unobtanium” in factory ammo lately. Second is a Marlin/Glenfield M30 in .30/30. Both wear 2-7x optics.
Good luck in you search. I would suggest a Tika T3 light in either.308 or 7mm08…

I shot this fella at the great range of 17yards from my ladder stand with the Remington Model-7 in .260Rem….

Thanks! Any idea of 7mm-08 is able to be had in the AR platform? Seems like it would be really nice to have one platform and 2 or 3 calibers I could use with it (some cheap 5.56, the good old .308 or 7mm-08, and maybe one of the bigger boys like .450BM or 7mm RM. )

M1A SOCOM?
.308 ammo easy to find, relatively cheap, plenty of power for any NA critters, flat trajectory, quick follow shots, compact and light(ish), weather resistant polymer stock.....

Downsides are somewhat pricey rifle and they are LOUD.


Really, any quality long gun in a decent center-fire cartridge will work. I will say the old Remington pump rifles are heavy garbage IME, but lever action carbines have been bringing home meat for 100+ years just fine.

Good to know. I'll take a look. The rifle cost is most of the issue, since I also want to get a reloading setup, and stick within $2k (lower is better).

So oddly enough Winchester is made in Japan now whereas Henry and Marlin are still made in the USA. Generally the more you spend on a lever the smoother the action is from the factory and the better the finish. My Rossi also has the issue that if I try to load too many in the tube it will accept the +1 that isn't supposed to be there and jam the gun up to the point of requiring tools. I am not aware of this is a common issue with Rossi or any other brand. Henry guns generally have better wood than they should for the price but also tend to be heavy and a clunkier approach to the design, I own more Henry than any other brand FWIW. Marlin and Winchester are generally the gold standard for non custom guns with both being smooth to operate and excellent finish. Marlin is re-entering the market under the ownership of Ruger and with that has come an increase in both cost and quality from what I have heard. The main reason I would grab my Rossi for heavy brush is that it is as accurate as the others with a finish on the wood and metal that I wouldn't feel bad if it fell off a cliff or some other mishap that would make a good story. My Henry rifles on the other hand always make me pause when I see a new scratch on the stock and I have to remind myself they are just tools.

LOL. You sound like me after I make a new workbench! Definitely will be going with a Henry then. Maybe something better, but Rossi sounds like maybe not too good (like you say, probably not bad, but it's only $200 to get a way nicer gun. And as a self-avowed antiquarian, I love seeing history on tools and firearms!)

One other thing is, you say the Henry ones are clunky. Do you mean they look like a Hi-Point compared to a glock, or that they don't function as well as the others do?

And do the cheaper guns wear in pretty quickly, or do they tend to keep that stiffness for a while?

 

[Sanderguy777]

Another vote for a Rossi 92 from me. I have one in 44 mag. it's lightweight handles fast and for a brush gun I prefer a lever action over a bolt gun. I live north central Arkansas and hunt brush country just like a lot of what you'll see in Missouri. Hard to beat a compact lightweight lever gun in these conditions. If you go with a Rossi best to inspect in person as the quality can vary from very good to poor.

Thanks! Good info. Yeah, I'd be getting one from Bass Pro, so I'd definitely take a look.

 

[Sanderguy777]

It can be both or either. A front shoulder shot may result in just one lung, but can be effective at getting to the heart with the right angle.

Ok, thanks!

The marlin, winchester war of who is better has been raging for a long time. I prefer a Marlin, and watching cleaning and breakdown videos will instantly show you the pistol caliber marlins disassemble for barrel cleaning with one screw in about a minute. If your hunting, rain, mud the world over, I would always buy the easy to clean gun. If your only going to own one, and your not hand loading, 44 would probably be my first choice. Second choice would be the Ole dirty thirty.

Don't they offer .45-70s? Or does Bass Pro just not carry them?

And that brings me to my other question. Why .44 mag over .45-70? Seems like the prices (at least from that I remember and for the cheapo Walmart offerings), we're really close.

I'm with the folks that say .357 carbine. I have one in Henry lever action and it is popular for 50-100 yd encounters with hogs. .357 ammo is back down to decent prices for target ammo but I would get 180gr Buffalo Bore for thick skinned critters. This ammo moves out of a 16" barrel very fast - around 1700 fps. And if your eyes are good, you can use the standard sights and hit your target at 100 no problem.

Thanks!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Honestly, feel free to move this, mods. Not sure where it best fits.

I'm looking for a brush gun for deer and hogs. I have only hunted in Southern Idaho, so idk what to look for.

What I know:
1. I'll be in MO.
2. I don't have reloading stuff.
3. I prefer a rifle, but wouldn't be opposed to a revolver if that would be better. Lever action or pump is top, but even a double barrel would be cool (except for hogs, then I'd rather have a few more shots).

What I want to know:
1. What would be relatively easy to find in stores, but not too expensive to shoot?

2. Is getting a more uncommon round better, or does it get just that much more difficult to find ammo for when they slow down production?

3. Where to buy? I know Bass Pro owns Cabelas and Sportsman's now, are any of those worth going to, or should I just try local mom and pop places?

4. Are brush guns all $1000+, or is that just BP being expensive? .45-70 is the only one I really messed with, so that's probably a little high. Is there something a bit cheaper I could go with?

Thanks

Well, a lot of this is going to depend on how you hunt and what you’re used to. My first deer gun was a 4-5/8” Ruger .357Mag Blackhawk single action. I used that exclusively hunting in Central Florida from the time I was 13 until I joined the Air Force at 17. When I got out I used that and got a Marlin 94, also in .357, for longer range. Now, that’s the thing: I was hunting mostly from a low tree stand or ground blind and most of my shots were under 50ft. A lot were under 10ft. When I started stalking the range was still under 50ft - I bought the Marlin expecting farther but found it was just as easy to close in as find a good rest - so the .357 was never a problem. Hunting cleared land got me into a .35Rem and hunting clear cut tree farming land got me into .35Whelen and .358Win - but those are not brush areas anymore.

I have longer sight radius Blackhawks now - .44 and .357 - but still use a 5” .45Colt and a lot of time a 4” Colt Lawman when I am cleaning up vermin hogs and coyote stragglers with the local cattlemen. For MO I would say a good .35Rem levergun or a .357Mag Blackhawk with a 6-1/2” barrel is a good bet. Fast handling and good fit is the key to getting a BANG-flop. I can do it with a DA .38Spl and a heavy bullet but it is not exactly what most people are going to be comfortable with.

Good hunting!

 

[.308 Norma]

Are brush guns all $1000+, or is that just BP being expensive?

I'm not following. Does "BP" mean Black Powder? Are you thinking that what you're calling "brush guns" all use black powder?

.45-70 is the only one I really messed with, so that's probably a little high. Is there something a bit cheaper I could go with?

Although the grand old .45-70 was originally a black powder cartridge, I think you're going to have a hard time finding factory black powder loaded ammo for a .45-70 nowadays.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm not following. Does "BP" mean Black Powder? Are you thinking that what you're calling "brush guns" all use black powder?

Although the grand old .45-70 was originally a black powder cartridge, I think you're going to have a hard time finding factory black powder loaded ammo for a .45-70 nowadays.

BP = Bass Pro

 

[somethingbenign]

One other thing is, you say the Henry ones are clunky. Do you mean they look like a Hi-Point compared to a glock, or that they don't function as well as the others do?

I'd like it more to S&W vs Ruger revolvers. The S&W are more svelte and elegant. The Ruger just looks like a usable and solid gun. Henry's are fine, I've never seen one that shot poorly. The cheaper guns wear in quickly enough, my Rossi has probably 200 rounds through it and a bunch more dry fire. In my hands the rifle feels fine, my wife does prefer someone else loads the tube for her though. That magazine gate still is pretty stiff. On magazine gates, all my Henry's are from before they added them so I can't speak to if they wear in nicely. Henry did keep the front load option so even if the gate is too hard to use for a specific shooter or with gloves then there is another option.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Well, a lot of this is going to depend on how you hunt and what you’re used to. My first deer gun was a 4-5/8” Ruger .357Mag Blackhawk single action. I used that exclusively hunting in Central Florida from the time I was 13 until I joined the Air Force at 17. When I got out I used that and got a Marlin 94, also in .357, for longer range. Now, that’s the thing: I was hunting mostly from a low tree stand or ground blind and most of my shots were under 50ft. A lot were under 10ft. When I started stalking the range was still under 50ft - I bought the Marlin expecting farther but found it was just as easy to close in as find a good rest - so the .357 was never a problem. Hunting cleared land got me into a .35Rem and hunting clear cut tree farming land got me into .35Whelen and .358Win - but those are not brush areas anymore.

I have longer sight radius Blackhawks now - .44 and .357 - but still use a 5” .45Colt and a lot of time a 4” Colt Lawman when I am cleaning up vermin hogs and coyote stragglers with the local cattlemen. For MO I would say a good .35Rem levergun or a .357Mag Blackhawk with a 6-1/2” barrel is a good bet. Fast handling and good fit is the key to getting a BANG-flop. I can do it with a DA .38Spl and a heavy bullet but it is not exactly what most people are going to be comfortable with.

Good hunting!

That's actually one of the things I was thinking about. It would be interesting to look at a nicer handgun, vs a moderate rifle. I've never shot anything except with long guns, but I shot a .44 mag once and it was fun. Also, I wouldn't mind quoting Dirty Harry to every critter I sent hot lead after LOL

I'm not following. Does "BP" mean Black Powder? Are you thinking that what you're calling "brush guns" all use black powder?

Although the grand old .45-70 was originally a black powder cartridge, I think you're going to have a hard time finding factory black powder loaded ammo for a .45-70 nowadays.

Sorry, i should have clarified. BP= is Bass Pro. Brush guns, to me, are heavy, slow bullets with little or no point to their profile. Think flat buffalo calibers, not .223 rounds you can stab yourself with LOL. Black powder is out of the question for me at the moment. Maybe someday, but smokeless seems like a more reasonable option at the moment.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Brush hunting takes some walking and climbing (if you hunt from tree stands), I would make light weight a top priority. This Howa is a good option. It's just 6.2# plus the scope you choose. Also, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a common cartridge, you can find it everywhere.

Howa Carbon Stalker

Edit: If you go the AR route, a light barrel 6mm ARC will do. Bullet placement is far more important than "Energy". Avoid the 450 BM and your shoulder will appreciate it.

 

[AJC1]

I heard it from the first camp, and that was what I was referring to. However, the second camp really makes more sense from an every day standpoint. You'll be wanting a smaller profile for moving around and aiming more often than you (should) need to be blasting through trees LOL

I would want something that could handle a twig or two if I didn't see it, but I think a small size would be at least as important.

I think a red dot sight or open sights are definitely the way I want to go. I've always liked open sights and lever guns, so I would be super happy with that combo.


Ok, so I thought Henry was the top of the line (outside some custom thing) for lever guns. Price wise, I don't see that, and everyone here sounds like they're only marginally better than Rossi (who I have no idea about, other than they're cheaper). Would there be a big difference between a Rossi to a Henry, to a Winchester or Marlin? I'm sure there's some difference, but is that going to show up in general hunting use? Or is it just that the Winchester is US made, and the others are foreign ot something? Basically, is it worth spending double to get a Winchester, or would a Rossi be just as good?

Someone mentioned .350 legend and .450 bushmaster. Are those modern rounds made for AR platforms? Or are they just something they shoved in there that works? (Sorry for mashing toes) but are they any more powerful than a .44 mag? I know the .300 blackout is good for sub-sonic and soft targets, but are those two any better for harder targets, like hogs with bones and thick hide?

The marlin, winchester war of who is better has been raging for a long time. I prefer a Marlin, and watching cleaning and breakdown videos will instantly show you the pistol caliber marlins disassemble for barrel cleaning with one screw in about a minute. If your hunting, rain, mud the world over, I would always buy the easy to clean gun. If your only going to own one, and your not hand loading, 44 would probably be my first choice. Second choice would be the Ole dirty

Ok, thanks!


Don't they offer .45-70s? Or does Bass Pro just not carry them?

And that brings me to my other question. Why .44 mag over .45-70? Seems like the prices (at least from that I remember and for the cheapo Walmart offerings), we're really close.


Thanks!

I have an XLR marlin in 45-70 but likely you'd be looking at the guide gun. 45-70 is punishing in a lite gun and the ammunition is very heavy. I choose a 44 because the ammo is readily available as you don't reload, and specialty ammo like Buffalo bore is common. Standard off the shelf ammo will do what you need. Recoil in 44 is very manageable and a follow up shot will be reasonably quick if a hog is injured and coming your way. The handiness of carrying a lever gun has been known for generations until you ruin it with a scope that adds no value to a brush gun. If 44 isn't enough, highly unlikely the 30-30 is.... more specialized things like 35 rem will just cost more and the brass is much harder to find, despite me really wanting one.

 

[gotboostvr]

Are you saying the Rossi isn't built well enough at that price? Or just that the ammo for it is more expensive than getting ammo for an AR style rifle?

Oh no, I really enjoyed my Rossi 92's. I've had a few, they're great guns.

Just the AR is, in my opinion an objectively a better tool for the job imho.

The Rossi's are also starting to creep up in price, my first a 16" stainless steel 44mag, was about $400, and now they're running around $700. Meanwhile, decent AR's are getting cheaper than ever.

 

[gotboostvr]

Cool! Is .350L and .450BM pretty easy to find?

450BM should be pretty easy to find with a trip to most gun stores. It's been a pretty popular hunting round lately.

350L has been really easy to find lately, I've seen it stocked deep just about anywhere that sells ammo. Winchester's doing a good job of trying to get it established. It's fairly a fairly new cartridge.

 

[Chuck R.]

Is the .350rem mag what you are talking about woth the flat trajectory? Or are you saying I should only get a rifle cartridge, because they tend towards a flatter trajectory? (As opposed to handgun rounds that basically fall more than 10" at 100 yards? Or at least according to what I've seen).

The .350RM when shooting the 225 partition at 2730 FPS basically has the same trajectory as a 30-06 shooting a 180 grain. With a 200grn Hornady SP at 2830, zero'd at 200yds I'm:

100 +1.6" +2.3"
150 +1.5" +2.0"
200 0
250 -3.3" - 4.6"
300 -8.2" -11.8"

30-06 Factory 180grn Load drop in red (180grn Winchester Power Point).

The 225 Nolser does slightly better. The .35Whelen will do the same, which is why I get a kick out of some guys calling it a mid-range cartridge. Still, it's not without it's shortfalls. the recoil from a sub 7lb gun takes some getting used to. It is now pretty much a strictly handloading proposition and I've now gotten to the point that I form my own brass for it. With full power loads it's overkill on whitetail, but there is only 1 degree of dead.

This is just me, based on my hunting conditions, but I wouldn't go with a PCC cartridge (handgun) in something I'd hunt deer with unless I KNEW my shots would be within that cartridge range limitations. As I said, around here at least I can go from 20' to 300+yds during a hunt. Even my backyard stand has possible 300 yard shots depending on their approach.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Brush hunting takes some walking and climbing (if you hunt from tree stands), I would make light weight a top priority. This Howa is a good option. It's just 6.2# plus the scope you choose. Also, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a common cartridge, you can find it everywhere.

Howa Carbon Stalker

Edit: If you go the AR route, a light barrel 6mm ARC will do. Bullet placement is far more important than "Energy". Avoid the 450 BM and your shoulder will appreciate it.

Yeah, I think light is probably for the best.

The marlin, winchester war of who is better has been raging for a long time. I prefer a Marlin, and watching cleaning and breakdown videos will instantly show you the pistol caliber marlins disassemble for barrel cleaning with one screw in about a minute. If your hunting, rain, mud the world over, I would always buy the easy to clean gun. If your only going to own one, and your not hand loading, 44 would probably be my first choice. Second choice would be the Ole dirty

I have an XLR marlin in 45-70 but likely you'd be looking at the guide gun. 45-70 is punishing in a lite gun and the ammunition is very heavy. I choose a 44 because the ammo is readily available as you don't reload, and specialty ammo like Buffalo bore is common. Standard off the shelf ammo will do what you need. Recoil in 44 is very manageable and a follow up shot will be reasonably quick if a hog is injured and coming your way. The handiness of carrying a lever gun has been known for generations until you ruin it with a scope that adds no value to a brush gun. If 44 isn't enough, highly unlikely the 30-30 is.... more specialized things like 35 rem will just cost more and the brass is much harder to find, despite me really wanting one.

The other thing is that at 100 yards, the .44 is probably plenty enough power to down an angry hog anyway.

Oh no, I really enjoyed my Rossi 92's. I've had a few, they're great guns.

Just the AR is, in my opinion an objectively a better tool for the job imho.

The Rossi's are also starting to creep up in price, my first a 16" stainless steel 44mag, was about $400, and now they're running around $700. Meanwhile, decent AR's are getting cheaper than ever.

Ok, then the AR is probably what I'll go for. Seems like a good tool, and if I can get a couple different setups for it then that's easy. Looking at conversion stuff real quick, it looks like it wouldn't be more than $300 or 400 to convert between rounds. It looks like I'd be limited by the platform though. Seems like AR15 is mostly plinking rounds, with a few specialty shorter range cartridges at the top. AR10 is mostly where I'd like to sit, but they seem to have .308 and 7mm-08 as a base, with. 450 marlin near the top. It seems like I'd need an AR15 for smaller game like coyotes (I guess I'm not eating them, so meat isn't really an issue, so bigger calibers aren't so bad), and an AR10 foe deer and up.

 

[Sanderguy777]

450BM should be pretty easy to find with a trip to most gun stores. It's been a pretty popular hunting round lately.

350L has been really easy to find lately, I've seen it stocked deep just about anywhere that sells ammo. Winchester's doing a good job of trying to get it established. It's fairly a fairly new cartridge.

OK, that seems promising. Others have been talking about recoil, but I shoot a 7mm RM from a savage 110 (9.5 lbs), and a 12ga (probably 6 or 7lbs). So my shoulder can handle it, and it's not like I'll be out there blasting away like Elmer Fudd. At least not at deer, maybe hogs, but I can always buy a thicker shirt LOL

The .350RM when shooting the 225 partition at 2730 FPS basically has the same trajectory as a 30-06 shooting a 180 grain. With a 200grn Hornady SP at 2830, zero'd at 200yds I'm:

100 +1.6" +2.3"
150 +1.5" +2.0"
200 0
250 -3.3" - 4.6"
300 -8.2" -11.8"

30-06 Factory 180grn Load drop in red (180grn Winchester Power Point).

The 225 Nolser does slightly better. The .35Whelen will do the same, which is why I get a kick out of some guys calling it a mid-range cartridge. Still, it's not without it's shortfalls. the recoil from a sub 7lb gun takes some getting used to. It is now pretty much a strictly handloading proposition and I've now gotten to the point that I form my own brass for it. With full power loads it's overkill on whitetail, but there is only 1 degree of dead.

This is just me, based on my hunting conditions, but I wouldn't go with a PCC cartridge (handgun) in something I'd hunt deer with unless I KNEW my shots would be within that cartridge range limitations. As I said, around here at least I can go from 20' to 300+yds during a hunt. Even my backyard stand has possible 300 yard shots depending on their approach.

Yeah, I will have a year to figure it out before I go for deer. Probably less for hogs, unless they have a season (they don't in Cali, and we aren't overrun, so I can't imagine MO caring if someone wiped them off the face of the earth every day LOL).
I'll definitely do some more digging to find what the general ranges are. Do you use a range finder, or one of those scopes that has a rangefinder system built into the markings? Just curious how you find ranges, cause I'm terrible at eyeballing anything bigger than a small room LOL

 

[gotboostvr]

Ok, then the AR is probably what I'll go for. Seems like a good tool, and if I can get a couple different setups for it then that's easy. Looking at conversion stuff real quick, it looks like it wouldn't be more than $300 or 400 to convert between rounds. It looks like I'd be limited by the platform though. Seems like AR15 is mostly plinking rounds, with a few specialty shorter range cartridges at the top. AR10 is mostly where I'd like to sit, but they seem to have .308 and 7mm-08 as a base, with. 450 marlin near the top. It seems like I'd need an AR15 for smaller game like coyotes (I guess I'm not eating them, so meat isn't really an issue, so bigger calibers aren't so bad), and an AR10 foe deer and up.

I'd avoid a typical AR10 as a hunting rifle, they're heavy to tote around typically.

There are some exceptions, the POF rifles, DPMS GII guns and the Ruger SFAR are all 308 guns, with exceptionally light weight. A 16" Ruger SFAR will probably be my next center fire rifle purchase.

All of the cartridges sized for an AR15 have their trade offs, certainly, but are very capable within their limitations. I feel like the 6ARC/6.5G are two very well balanced carbine cartridges, but ammo isn't the easiest to find.

 

[AJC1]

OK, that seems promising. Others have been talking about recoil, but I shoot a 7mm RM from a savage 110 (9.5 lbs), and a 12ga (probably 6 or 7lbs). So my shoulder can handle it, and it's not like I'll be out there blasting away like Elmer Fudd. At least not at deer, maybe hogs, but I can always buy a thicker shirt LOL

Yeah, I will have a year to figure it out before I go for deer. Probably less for hogs, unless they have a season (they don't in Cali, and we aren't overrun, so I can't imagine MO caring if someone wiped them off the face of the earth every day LOL).
I'll definitely do some more digging to find what the general ranges are. Do you use a range finder, or one of those scopes that has a rangefinder system built into the markings? Just curious how you find ranges, cause I'm terrible at eyeballing anything bigger than a small room LOL

If your stuck on an AR for short range the 6arc or 6.5 Grendel are your best choices....

 

[InTheSwamp]

Ok, then the AR is probably what I'll go for.

BA 6mm ARC Upper - $477.00

Then build a PSA lower with a nice trigger. Keep adding uppers as needed

 

[brewer12345]

You don't reload and many cartridges will do, so I would focus on something with common availability and I would plan to buy a few cases of a proven accurate factory offering once you buy the rifle.

.308 should be easy to find. 350 Legend is in every walmart and gun store I walk into and I don't even live in a straight wall state. The lever guns and most of the cartridges they chamber have become fairly expensive. 450BM has a lot of thump, but I don't think ammo is as available as 308 or 350L. I happen to really like 6.5 Grendel, but the ammo is harder to come by and I mostly prefer it because I need to be able to reach out to 300+ yards.

Unless you are dead set on a lever or a pump, I would suggest looking closely at a bolt action in .308 or 350L (a Ruger American Ranch is short enough to make a nice gun for climbing through the thick stuff), or I would look at a 16" barrel AR in 350 Legend or maybe 450BM.

 

[InTheSwamp]

I happen to really like 6.5 Grendel, but the ammo is harder to come by

Say, you buy 4 cases. One for zeroing the scope and a little side practice. The other 3 will last for a few hunting seasons.

 

[brewer12345]

Say, you buy 4 cases. One for zeroing the scope and a little side practice. The other 3 will last for a few hunting seasons.

Don't look at me, I reload and cast.

 

[Chuck R.]

I use a laser range finder, unless it's one of my stands, then I know the distances

A hold over from my army days is to build a small range card whenever I sit in overwatch. I'll laze in terrain features and record distances; trees, fence posts, gates, crests etc. That way I'm not fumbling when I should be shooting. It's also why I like the flatter trajectories, sometimes it's a "guestimation" which only comes with practice.

My backyard range goes out to 760yds and I have permanent swingers set up at varying distances. Even so IF it's beyond 300yds it's getting lazed, under will get lased too IF I have time. You can play with a ballistic app like Strelok and get a good idea of the subtense for a deer in your scope as a hasty form of ranging. Leupolds had a ranging portion on their magnification ring for this purpose. It is not exact, but for 300 and under it works, but with most HV bottle-neck hunting rounds a 200yd zero and "holding on hair" works out to 300yds.

I've used and practiced using mil reticles for ranging, and it works, but it takes time and is a skill unto itself. Not every tgt is the standard size, nor is the presentation the same. Which is why most guys are carrying lasers now.

Don't take this wrong, but based on your line of questions, it really sounds like at this point you need to keep it simple. .308 bolt gun, decent scope and practice.