You can buy 5.45x39 at academy stores. The box says Monarch, but it's repackaged Barnaul FMJ 60gr. Only downside is the price: around $9 for a box of 30 after tax.
Looking for an AK47 or 74
- Thread starter Byrd666
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warning aint the greatest shot and try not to laught at my 50y groups using irons k. my cheap wasr 1063m probably wont hold quarter sized groups....but with a reddot and 2x magnifier will still hit what i aiming at. well said meanmustard
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You hear this brought up a lot, and it is certainly true at least on paper. However, I have never heard anyone complain about reliability issues with a 5.56 AK. Nor have I ever personally experienced any.
If I were only going to have one caliber of AK it would not be a 5.56. However, I wouldn't worry too much about the reliability of one.
meanmrmustard
Member
What would you choose? 545 is more accurate, but 762 has more punch. Saiga in .308 is an awesome rifle, but I've experienced at least one rifle in that chambering that hiccups on steel cased stuff. Not at all up to snuff.
meanmrmustard
Member
Pretty sure, if you're trying to kill something out past 100 yards, you just ruined its day.warning aint the greatest shot and try not to laught at my 50y groups using irons k. my cheap wasr 1063m probably wont hold quarter sized groups....but with a reddot and 2x magnifier will still hit what i aiming at. well said meanmustard
OilyPablo
Member
Any used AK variants for sale in your area?
Byrd666
Member
Oily
Not many/any in this region of West Texas that I've been able to find. And the gun prices out here are through the roof as it is anyway. Used and new. Is one of the reasons I'm looking at a new purchase, and just paying the transfer fee for it.
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Not many/any in this region of West Texas that I've been able to find. And the gun prices out here are through the roof as it is anyway. Used and new. Is one of the reasons I'm looking at a new purchase, and just paying the transfer fee for it.
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Swampman
Old Fart
Byrd666,
Folks may have gotten off track a bit since they figured zoom6zoom answered your question in post #8 when he suggested the VEPR! Seriously, while I admit that Arsenal puts out some fine weapons, for that kind of coin you can darn near get into an M1a. The VEPRs may be a little heavier than a Saiga, but the difference in overall quality and FEEL is huge. The trigger is pretty close to the way Mikhail designed it, instead of having 119.3 little friction producing levers and pins to move it to the rear of the receiver so that a bunch of liberal politicians can sleep better at night (it makes the weapon FAR less dangerous dontchaknow).
The Saiga also followed the lead of the AR and uses a flimsy plastic stock that looks and feels like it was made by Hasbro or Mattel. It's been a few years since I hunted in West Texas, but I don't imagine that the feel of a slick black plastic stock at nine million degrees Kelvin feels any better against your cheek now than it did back then.
Although the VEPR, like the Saiga, uses proprietary magazines, it's fairly easy to convert either one to use cheap, reliable AK magazines, just make sure you don't run afoul of 922r.
I'm not an AK expert by any means, but I know what feels right, the VEPR feels right, both when carrying it and shooting it.
I'm deliberately leaving out the accuracy results that I obtained when shooting a buddies 7.62x39 VEPR because it wouldn't sound very impressive in present company. Suffice it to say that it was considerably better than most AK platform weapons that I've fired, but not quite as good as my old Yugo 59/66 SKS.
Here's a couple of links.
http://centerfiresystems.com/search.aspx?find=vepr
These are more expensive, but they've already had the magazine conversion done.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns?caliber=46
Folks may have gotten off track a bit since they figured zoom6zoom answered your question in post #8 when he suggested the VEPR! Seriously, while I admit that Arsenal puts out some fine weapons, for that kind of coin you can darn near get into an M1a. The VEPRs may be a little heavier than a Saiga, but the difference in overall quality and FEEL is huge. The trigger is pretty close to the way Mikhail designed it, instead of having 119.3 little friction producing levers and pins to move it to the rear of the receiver so that a bunch of liberal politicians can sleep better at night (it makes the weapon FAR less dangerous dontchaknow).
The Saiga also followed the lead of the AR and uses a flimsy plastic stock that looks and feels like it was made by Hasbro or Mattel. It's been a few years since I hunted in West Texas, but I don't imagine that the feel of a slick black plastic stock at nine million degrees Kelvin feels any better against your cheek now than it did back then.
Although the VEPR, like the Saiga, uses proprietary magazines, it's fairly easy to convert either one to use cheap, reliable AK magazines, just make sure you don't run afoul of 922r.
I'm not an AK expert by any means, but I know what feels right, the VEPR feels right, both when carrying it and shooting it.
I'm deliberately leaving out the accuracy results that I obtained when shooting a buddies 7.62x39 VEPR because it wouldn't sound very impressive in present company. Suffice it to say that it was considerably better than most AK platform weapons that I've fired, but not quite as good as my old Yugo 59/66 SKS.
Here's a couple of links.
http://centerfiresystems.com/search.aspx?find=vepr
These are more expensive, but they've already had the magazine conversion done.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns?caliber=46
Comedian
Member
I bought an arsenal SGL 21 a couple of weeks ago and I'd recommend it over the various cheaper models I've inspected in the weeks prior to the purchase. The only downsides are that it's still very stiff (particularly the safety and the magazine release) and very sharp (particularly the safety and the magazine release). I'd recommend using keeping some gloves on hand until it breaks in a bit. Also steel magazine prices have apparently gone WAY up since I last looked.
If you don't mind spending a little bit more on something that just looks like an AK (as opposed to an actual AK) look at the VZ 58. Much better rifle (in my opinion) for not a whole lot more money.
If you don't mind spending a little bit more on something that just looks like an AK (as opposed to an actual AK) look at the VZ 58. Much better rifle (in my opinion) for not a whole lot more money.
southerndraw197
Member
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- Sep 27, 2012
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the ak an sks are always getting bad misinterpitation! i love them both! i love how they shoot and look! they look tuff and stand behind it! i have killed so many deer hogs coyotes 75 to 100 yds open site! the ammo is much cheaper and easier to find!7.62x39! guns so much cheaper than the ar! im not rich so im satisfied with wat have! plus in my opinion a ar looks too much like a toy! or a cop gun! anyway happy shooting! godbless!
mortablunt
Member
You said "varmints" and "plinking". That just screams AK-74. Be warned that you'll need to do just about all your AK-74 shopping online because it's not yet very common in the United States. The ammunition can be dirt cheap and the guns are fairly priced. However, mags a major pain to get. The cheaper mags you'll find online are about $30, but if you want something more exotic than soviet 30 rounders, such as larger or smaller capacity, or the old style orange bakelite mags, then be ready for sticker shock.
Neo-Luddite
Member
I've had great luck with my Cugir WASR 10; 4-5 K rounds over six years, not cleaned once--100% reliable to date. Crude, poorly finished, but decent to 200 yards.
Also have same weapon (Cugir WASR) in 5.25 x 39. Not as reliable with all ammo, but super light recoil and (for now) cheap ammo.
I bought from AIM surplus in OH; nice folks. Go with 7.62 x 39 first. Added optic rail (Soviet surplus from Belarus) for about 50 bucks--rock solid and high enough to sight with either eye and strip weapon w/ mout removal if desired.
Also have same weapon (Cugir WASR) in 5.25 x 39. Not as reliable with all ammo, but super light recoil and (for now) cheap ammo.
I bought from AIM surplus in OH; nice folks. Go with 7.62 x 39 first. Added optic rail (Soviet surplus from Belarus) for about 50 bucks--rock solid and high enough to sight with either eye and strip weapon w/ mout removal if desired.
Byrd666
Member
Is the Cugir WASR 10 that much different, or better than the Century Arms?
I am am a complete Novice when it comes to this platform. Please excuse my ignorance.
I am am a complete Novice when it comes to this platform. Please excuse my ignorance.
Cugir is the "arsenal group" in Romania that makes the WASRs, M&M M10s, the old SARs/CURs/ROMAKs/WUMs/Dracos etc.
Century Arms and M&M are just two of the current importers of Cugir's AKMs.
See here;
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=291860
FWIW, Cugir has been arming warfighters for decades, so they know how to build an AKM that runs, even down to the USSR-inspired warty finish.
Depending on which AK forum you visit on the 'net, WASRs are worshiped or merely tolerated. I'm down to 3 plus a Draco; they all go bang when required to.
Century Arms and M&M are just two of the current importers of Cugir's AKMs.
See here;
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=291860
FWIW, Cugir has been arming warfighters for decades, so they know how to build an AKM that runs, even down to the USSR-inspired warty finish.
Depending on which AK forum you visit on the 'net, WASRs are worshiped or merely tolerated. I'm down to 3 plus a Draco; they all go bang when required to.
Byrd666
Member
Thank you all for the help
I've seen mention of the 7.62x39 variants being more reliable than the 5.45 or 5.56s. What has your experience been with the various calibers?
Also, of the various makes, what magazines, stocks, forends, etc. are/are not compatible with each other? Are Arsenal firearms compatible with surplus AK-47 magazines? Are Saigas compatible with WASR buttstocks? Etc.
My intention is not to hijack this thread, rather I'm trying to clarify a few points for myself and the OP.
Also, of the various makes, what magazines, stocks, forends, etc. are/are not compatible with each other? Are Arsenal firearms compatible with surplus AK-47 magazines? Are Saigas compatible with WASR buttstocks? Etc.
My intention is not to hijack this thread, rather I'm trying to clarify a few points for myself and the OP.
Refering to the photos of the targets, after zeroing the front sight on my Arsenal SGL, I fired 15 shots at 50 yds. from the bench. 8 of those shots were in a group the size of a quarter at the point of aim, the rest scattered like the target on the left. I guess the limitation is me and the open sights. I'm looking forward to shooting this rifle with a red dot and at longer ranges (I've fired less than 250 rounds total). As to the OPs original question, I think I would consider a Saiga and do the conversion myself.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Pretty much that they all run just great. Now, there's a theoretical reliability issue in that 5.56mm cartridges are not as tapered and should therefore feed a little less reliably, but most who've run those guns (I have not) will tell you there is no problem in the real world.
5.45 and 7.62 are perfectly reliable if the gun is set up well enough and the mag is halfway decent...and they almost all are.
This is probably a book's worth of information. It would be best to pick a specific rifle and then ask what works with it. There are several different kinds of folding stock and at least three types of fixed stock that are not swappable. However, the most common AK design is the stamped, fixed stock model of the AKM, and there is plenty of variety if you get that type of gun.
Yes, and surplus mags are universally the standard for reliability. Don't bother with US-made and/or commercial-manufacture AK mags if you can help it.
Depends. Fixed or folder?
I bought an I.O. Inc AK47 pretty recently. I know that some people have complained alot about IO AK's but their newer stuff seems to be much better quality than it used to be. Works great so far, very reliable too, fit isn't bad at all, a big minus on the finish though because it isn't done very well.
Main reasons I bought it were:
1. Made in the USA, no compliance issues to worry about.
2. Basically in the same price range as some beat up military surplus rifles.
3. Lifetime warranty.
4. Comes with two 30 round magazines.
Main reasons I bought it were:
1. Made in the USA, no compliance issues to worry about.
2. Basically in the same price range as some beat up military surplus rifles.
3. Lifetime warranty.
4. Comes with two 30 round magazines.
OilyPablo
Member
Here's my conversion:
Sam,
Thank you very much for your thorough reply. An AK has definitely been on my wish list for a while. This thread, especially your reply, helps point me in the correct direction. When the time comes to add one to the collection, I'm sure I'll be back with more [specific] questions.
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