Looking For Best 12 GA load for defense against Black Bear

[JP1954]

I have a cabin in a somewhat remote area of the Sierra Nevada mountains. Although it is not common, I have heard from more than one source that on occasion Black bears have been known to break into inhabited dwellings to raid the kitchen (how rude!). ...I have a 12 GA Remington 20" 8 shot pump. I have 5- 3" mag slugs and 5 - 3" mag 00 buckshot shells. Just when I thought this should be adequate, I saw a blog wherein this guy said he saw the results of a 12 GA slug on a Brown Bear (aka Big Grizzly) in which the slug pancaked just under the hide and therefore did not penetrate deep enough to drop the bruin in it's tracks. He went on to say that he thinks this happened because of the soft lead used in smooth bore slugs to accomodate different choke barrels. Perhaps my concerns are overblown as Black Bears are the only species in my neck of the woods, however, I once saw a vehicle that was partially dismantled by one of these dudes and needless to say he did not use tools . That being said, I want to know with certainty that if I have to drop the hammer on one of these critters that I can drop him in his tracks. Anyone with expertise, experience or other knowledge in this area who can share same with me would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mete]

"pancaked just under the hide " ?? There had to be more penetration than that ! That said , I have seen questions on forums "what 12 ga slug expands the most" Obviously these types have no clue because you hardly need expansion with a 12 ga !!! Brenneke slugs have always had a very good reputation .Though I have no experience with them the Win Partition I'm sure would work very well and Rem all copper slug .I hunt with a 45-70 and was unhappy about excessive expansion with 300 grain bullets so I switched to the Win Partition - a much better round !! Black bears can neasily get into your house but 8 rounds of slug should change his mind !!

 

[Fred Fuller]

My money is on Brennekes, hard alloy solid slugs (not soft lead hollow base Foster types) that have a well earned reputation for deep penetration and cookie-cutter holes.

Some folks have had good things to say about Dixie Slugs ( http://www.dixieslugs.com/ ), I haven't had any experience with 'em.

lpl/nc

 

[Dave McCracken]

Brenekkes.....

 

[redneck2]

Brennekes may well be the best.

I use Remington Copper Solids. I suspect you'd get total penetration from any angle. One of my friends shot a thorn tree maybe 8" in diameter. Blew the backside of the tree out. Total penetration on a deer from any angle.

 

[cane]

I don't know if they are still available, but I always carried BRI sabots in my 870, when I was in AK.

 

[jcord]

I would use Brenneke slugs. I have personal experience using them on deer and black bear with excellent results.

 

[RNB65]

I really don't think you have anything to worry about. Black bears are harmless. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone. You have far more to fear from a rabid squirrel or fox.

But if you must, go with slugs. Buckshot is pretty much useless against the dense fur, thick fat and big bones of bears.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Slug, slug, slug, slug, slug.

(reload)

Slug, slug, slug, slug, slug!

 

[ZeSpectre]

A bear is composed of
1) Thick Fur
2) Thick Fat
3) Thick Muscles
4) Thick Bones

Slugs designed for penetration so you can reach the vitals.

(Disclaimer - Based on gathered information. I have never needed to shoot a bear)

 

[Joe30045]

Black Bears?

I have taken a black bear in South Georgia with Winchester Super XX 00 Buckshot. One shot dropped him stone cold. Of course, I was fully prepared to keep on pulling the trigger if he hadn't!! And a disclaimer(lawyer speak for you might not agree with the following) is that 00 Buck is pretty much my answer for whatever needs killin' or curin'.

 

[Biker]

Joe...

At what distance was the shot taken?

Biker

 

[RNB65]

The difference between buckshot and slugs is that buckshot may stop a bear while slugs will stop a bear.

 

[perpster]

Fed Tac Slugs?

What type of slug is the Federal Tactical Rifled Slug?

Would they be sufficient for bear in 12 ga?

 

[Orr89rocz]

i used Federal Classic Rifle slugs.... the 2 3/4" shells with the 1 1/4 ounce slug at 1520fps. those things pack severe knockdown power energy as well as a good kick in the shoulder. they penetrate a good deal of solid ground at the range. i'd feel very confident with them on black bear or any bear. the 3inch version maybe even more potent against larger brown bears. they are a hollow base slug tho, but its alot of lead that will penetrate alot of bear.

there are other good rifle slugs out there tho with good knock down power and penetration that arent foster style. those will work great too.


i'm a big fan of sabot slugs... 385-400 grains at 1700-1900 fps deliver alot of energy and the high quality sabots are designed to expand quickly upon entry, but the base holds together very well to provide deep penetration. much like a nosler partition rifle bullet.

copper solids are nice but abit weaker than the winchester premium loads. remington does have a few top of the line sabots such as buckhammer and their core lokt ultra slug loads.

but these sabot slugs shoot best in rifled barrels so i think you'll have to stick with rifled slugs.

 

[Sunray]

1. Yogi isn't interested in you. You smell of nothing but trouble to him. Your garbage, sure. Keep the place clean and garbage free. No food stuffs in the fridge when you're not there. Mind you, yogi is an insatiably curious beast. Moth balls should keep yogi and tree rats away.
2. Buckshot is for fire fights in phone booths. It's useless for any game. Slugs only and only if you can shoot them well.
3. A black bear is not a griz. A big blackie runs 3-500 pounds. A young griz starts that big.
4. Absolutely no shotgun round guarantees a one shot stop unless you can make a head shot with a slug.
5. Ignore anything you see on a 'blog'.

 

[Orr89rocz]

4. Absolutely no shotgun round guarantees a one shot stop unless you can make a head shot with a slug.

i wouldnt say that.... defense situations of under 25 yards, there are several BIG slugs up over 500 grains that will deliever near 3000ftlbs. and some 385's will deliver near that much. thats a lot of energy and mass hitting the engine room.... it will floor a black bear

 

[JP1954]

THANK YOU ONE AND ALL

I appreciate the input from you all, I have read all replies. The consensus seems to be Brenneke slugs. I went to their website and looked at the details of their products. Most impressive. In addition I read their customer testimonials and a copy of an article about a fella who shot a charging black bear sow with one 12 ga 1 ounce slug at close range. He said it knocked her right off the trail.......stone dead. Based on all the above, I orderred their "Black Magic Magnum" 3" solid(not Foster) slugs [600grain(1.375oz.) @1502 fps = 3014foot lbs. energy]. I'm no physicist, but I don't think that shell will require a headshot for a kill. The recoil may be a bit of a concern, however, I shot the gun on Sunday with 3in mags 1.875oz. of # 4 buckshot and was able at one point to pop off 3 rounds in about 4 +/- seconds on target at 25 yards. I don't think the recoil from the Brennekes will be much worse, but I'll find out when the shells arrive. I really like the gun. Very smooth action, well balanced and just the right weight. It's my 3rd Remington long arm (I have two rifles) and I love all three. Thanks again to everybody who took the time to reply. Like I said in my thread.....it is highly unlikely that I will need these, but I will sure sleep more soundly at night knowing I'm the baddest dude in my neck of the woods........P.S. Those of you who believe black bears are "harmless" may want to do a little research as I have. While it may be true that the vast majority of black bears are timid and shy of humans, some are not and even the timid ones when confronted under certain circumstances can be extremely dangerous. Like I said in my thread, it is uncommon but more than one cabin has been broken into by these critters. That a bear is willing to break into an inhabited dwelling is strong evidence that it has lost it's fear of humans. The authorities here believe so because a bear that breaks into a dwelling (inhabited or not) is hunted down and killed. They believe at that point they are too dangerous to sedate and relocate.
I'm a live and let live guy. I have no desire to kill a bear. My wife loves bears. She has bear things in every nook and cranny of our cabin. That said, we are also realistic enough to know that we are not dealing with "Yogi, BooBoo, or Winnie The Pooh." These are large powerfull always hungry animals who can and do DISMANTLE CARS WITHOUT TOOLS. They don't have human values either. Like all wild animals they are ruthless and opportunistic by nature. They have to be this way to survive. It is not good. It is not bad. It "IS" their reality.

 

[Onmilo]

Brennekes.
For inexpensive shells you might take a look at the Wolf slugs.
They are really close to Brenneke in appearance and performance.

 

[Joe30045]

Biker, Distance on the bear was about 20 yards.

Sunray, I stand by my faith in buckshot with the animals I am in the woods with. If I start going in areas where there are more dangerous animals, the Barret .50 is always an option. And I would caveat number 4 with "Absolutely NO round GUARANTEES a one shot stop." None. And I 2nd number 5.

JP1954 Amen. I treat all critters as wild, I have had both pets and 2 legged animals try and do me harm, therefore, I trust none.

 

[gezzer]

In your cabin? I'll lay odds the bear will beat feet when he knows your there. Be happy to see a bear in the yard. My family is, we learned to live with them a long time ago.

Don't keep trash out or near the house, don't feed your dogs or cats outside, remove your bird feeders in the spring when the bears wake up.

Trust me they are more afraid of you than you are of them. Any 12 gauge or 20 gauge will work on a black bear. For the bigger bears 12 gauge Breneke's

 

[Orr89rocz]

[600grain(1.375oz.) @1502 fps = 3014foot lbs. energy]. I'm no physicist, but I don't think that shell will require a headshot for a kill. The recoil may be a bit of a concern,

thats gonna hurt abit. i've shot federal classic rifled slugs...546 grain at 1520 and it was pretty punishing. Borderline harsh in my light 7 lb winchester 1300...even with ported choke tube. they had a 3inch version shootin the same grain slug at 1600+. i never shot them and wouldnt really want to.

 

[Rob62]

The recoil using the load you ordered will be.....well.......quite stiff. Specially if you are using a short barrelled pump gun. I am sure you are going to try the load out and when you do, if you decide that in fact it is too much recoil wise, I would go with the standard 2 3/4" Brenneke's.

As a matter of fact I shot some today out of my "Tacticool" Remington 870. All in all not too bad.

On a side note. I also shot some Remington "Reduced Velocity" 2 3/4" slugs and really liked them - seemed like the muzzle blast and recoild were 60-80% that of the Brenneke's.

Regards and good luck no matter what load you end up with.

Rob

 

[berettashotgun]

An attacking black bear will get killed by any slug, how fast is in direct relation to where you hit . Metabolism/heart rate determines how fast something expires, could be why no stories about a grizzly everying being hunted with a buck knife show on OLN. Any slug would work to kill a grizzly-with a decent shot, a black bear would take considerbly less. I'd opt for the brenneke's, but fed/rem/win/barnes/hornady would all fit your "defense" plan.

 

[RedAlert]

Recoil?

I would venture that recoil will not be a problem. Sure, you suffer during range time as you practice, but in a tactical or emergency scenario, recoil will not be an issue until the engagement is concluded. Then you might notice a sore shoulder when the adrenaline fades.

RDF