Looking to gain a new skill in reloading ammo. Saving money? Is it a bad idea to buy fired brass?

[EricBu]

Wow! I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone going from, “I’m thinking about reloading,” to “Load up the RT1500 and make 10,000 perfect rounds a day,” in one step with no tutoring other than YouTube videos and a forum post. Incredible! You’re a real freak of nature.

Go big or go home!

Just a counter to the single stage crowd who often seem to think that simply by being slower, they are somehow making better ammo. There is simply no truth to that. While it's certainly possible to make better ammo on a single, it is also possible to make excellent ammo on a progressive, and certainly also possible to make horrible and dangerous ammo on a single. Bad habits are bad habits, and can be learned just as efficiently on a single as a progressive.

I mean, the puritans here need to recognize that a portion of the new loaders coming into this hobby aren't here for the craft or the process...they're here to make as much ammo, as fast and as cheap as they can. No point getting in pissing matches over who's way is the right way. I'd personally rather suck maggots out of a dead cow's rectum than load 9mm or 223 on a single stage, but that's just me. My choices aren't necessarily the right choices for other folks, and for some, maybe thats the right answer. I mean, I have like 10 presses, and one of them is an old RockChucker...and it get's used nearly daily. But I also rarely load anything more than a dozen rounds on it for load dev, or verification.

 

[WeekendReloader]

The nice thing about buying a single stage press is that they are so darn useful. There are many tools that work in a single stage, but not in a progressive.

I use my progressive to load a lot of 9mm pistol ammo. I use the single stage to size all my cast bullets and bulge bust my pistol brass. Also, I load my low-volume 380 pistol and 30-30 rifle on the single stage.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

The nice thing about buying a single stage press is that they are so darn useful. There are many tools that work in a single stage, but not in a progressive.

I use my progressive to load a lot of 9mm pistol ammo. I use the single stage to size all my cast bullets and bulge bust my pistol brass. Also, I load my low-volume 380 pistol and 30-30 rifle on the single stage.

Flare, powder drop, powder check, lock out die, seater, factory crimp, subjective to my needs and nothing that needs to be on a single stage only. However there is a crimp remover that is single stage only but If I had to choose between my progressive and single, well adios single. I still have my Frankford trim station with crimp remover heads so it's not like I am losing a capability here.

The best thing about reloading, is that there is more than one way to skin this cat. All entirely subjective even.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Go big or go home!

Just a counter to the single stage crowd who often seem to think that simply by being slower, they are somehow making better ammo. There is simply no truth to that. While it's certainly possible to make better ammo on a single, it is also possible to make excellent ammo on a progressive, and certainly also possible to make horrible and dangerous ammo on a single. Bad habits are bad habits, and can be learned just as efficiently on a single as a progressive.

I mean, the puritans here need to recognize that a portion of the new loaders coming into this hobby aren't here for the craft or the process...they're here to make as much ammo, as fast and as cheap as they can. No point getting in pissing matches over who's way is the right way. I'd personally rather suck maggots out of a dead cow's rectum than load 9mm or 223 on a single stage, but that's just me. My choices aren't necessarily the right choices for other folks, and for some, maybe thats the right answer. I mean, I have like 10 presses, and one of them is an old RockChucker...and it get's used nearly daily. But I also rarely load anything more than a dozen rounds on it for load dev, or verification.

Yup. Like I told the OP, he’ll probably eventually end up with at least one of each if he sticks with the hobby, no matter how he starts. I’m the exception. I still use my whack-a-moles and hand press. But I also only shoot a few rounds. I shot less when I hunted regularly. All I cared about was keeping my point skills up and making sure the sights were still on-target.

Volume shooters puzzle me, frankly. I don’t get the appeal but, diversity is the spice of life so, ce la vie.

But, on a serious note, it’s probably not good to give a guy still thinking about trying reloading starting out on an automated manufacturing setup is a good idea if their main focus is being economical and saving money. That’s a HUGE up-front investment for a single shooter.

 

[50of4064]

"Turk81" where are you?

 

[The_Quartermaster]

But, on a serious note, it’s probably not good to give a guy still thinking about trying reloading starting out on an automated manufacturing setup is a good idea if their main focus is being economical and saving money. That’s a HUGE up-front investment for a single shooter.

Okay, automation is where I draw the line here, mister. That's just wrong, lol. It would take away my therapeutic flow and relieve me of my zen like state of happiness. Call me a luddite and I'll say dang right, pally!

"Turk81" where are you?

Probably waiting on the dust to settle between both sides, I'd imagine.

 

[EricBu]

But, on a serious note, it’s probably not good to give a guy still thinking about trying reloading starting out on an automated manufacturing setup is a good idea if their main focus is being economical and saving money. That’s a HUGE up-front investment for a single shooter.

I am fully confident that once he priced out a CP2000 w/ autodrive for brass processing, and a Mark 7 Revolution press......he'd change his mind about it. Believe me, there was no serious recommendation there. For new loaders, I have my standard recommendations that haven't changed for years....if you want to learn the craft and the art of handloading...start with a Rockchucker. If you want to make a reasonable amount of 9/40/45/556 quickly on a budget, get a Dillon 550. If you are competing and want autoindexing, get a 750. If you are competing, and making money at it, and the press will be a business investment and your BCA works out......then drop serious coin and go full automated Mark 7 Revo. There's a place for all the tools in the toolbox...people just need to analyze their goals, manage their expectations, and proceed accordingly. Reloading is definitely a hobby that can get somebody with champagne tastes on a beer budget deep in debt and miserable real real quick.

 

[Nature Boy]

I personally wouldn't want to learn on a progressive. I think a single stage would make for an easier learning experience.

I agree a single is the way to go for a first timer

I also feel starting off on a progressive is a little much

Fellas, I disagree. I did a lot of research before deciding my first press would be a Dillon 650.

If I can learn on it then anyone can. Absolutely no regrets

 

[Charlie98]

Here is where I explain things as best as I can so that maybe you'll finally be able to understand here. I joined when we were still analog, BDU's, PRC-77's, PASGT, and all grey PT's with ALICE. I left after becoming part of Force 21 and into digital, ACU's, OCP, two more different PT's, a change in APFT standards, molle, RFI's, IBA's, IOTV's, SINGARS, no more irons, etc. And I am telling you that no matter what changed on the technical side it wasn't even that hard. This argument between us is not any different.

Lighten up, Francis. I was making a joke about the A1's and the '80's. You did mention Force 21... that's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time, and had nearly forgotten about.

You're going to have to find a way to accept that your way isn't the only way anymore because that is a fact.

Never said it was the 'only way,' I only suggested that it was the way I recommended, and my reasons why. I also suggested there was a small quotient of people that might successfully take a progressive, and as a novice reloader, produce reasonable and safe ammo, right out of the gate. I am in no was suggesting a single-stage press should be used forever and ever; just like the progressive, the single-stage is a useful tool in it's own right. Again, I'm thinking of my own experience... doing it on my own, with no mentor... and at the time, no internet.

Just a counter to the single stage crowd who often seem to think that simply by being slower, they are somehow making better ammo. There is simply no truth to that. While it's certainly possible to make better ammo on a single, it is also possible to make excellent ammo on a progressive, and certainly also possible to make horrible and dangerous ammo on a single. Bad habits are bad habits, and can be learned just as efficiently on a single as a progressive.

Wrong, again. It's not about making better ammo, it's about learning the whole process safely and with some potential for success. By throwing in the complexity of setting up and operating a progressive on top of the task of learning to reload, you are taking a portion of the attention the novice should be pouring into the reloading process... and diverting it to the mechanics of the press. I remember when I got my ProJector (predecessor to the LNL...) It was a royal pain to get set and running where... finally... one pull of the handle spit out a serviceable cartridge. Granted, newer presses are likely better... I don't really know, I'm still on my ProJector.

 

[50of4064]

This should be... we teach the new folks the correct and safe way to hand load, and let them decide what is best for them. It does not matter what platform thay get taught on. The focus should be on teaching them the safe and correct method to hand load. Safty should be our first goal.

 

[redcon1]

Is it a good idea to buy fired once brass in any cal?

It isn't a good idea. It's a fantastic idea. It may even be the best idea or even the only idea.

I will be purchasing the Hornady Lock-N-Load Ap...For now I am planning to reload 308, 223, 9mm..

Once fired 7.62 and 5.56 will work great but you may find yourself very very busy prepping those cases, especially if you're loading large volumes of 7.62 for semi-auto MSRs. You have to resize them typically of course which can be a painful process with its own learning curve (primarily with the 7.62 cases). More tedious than that, you have to trim all those cases after you resize them- every single one of them. And then after trimming every single one of them, you have to deburr and chamfer the case mouths. I also uniform flash holes and primer pockets and brush the insides out. And then, at some point, you have to remove primer pocket crimps from every single primer pocket either by swaging or reaming. You also have to gauge or otherwise measure each case somehow to make sure it will fit in your rifle chamber(s). At this point, you have probably spent 2-3 days or more to prep 500-1000 cases and you have blisters on your fingers and your hands are perpetually cramped. But your cases are pristine and capable of making fine accurate ammunition. And now, after 2-3 days (or more) of prepping brass, now you're finally ready to start loading your cases up on your progressive press that will load those 500-1,000 cases up in an hour. You will save so much time as you can see. Some progressive presses, however, can actually perform at least some, if not all, of those steps with one pull of the lever so, IF I was planning on using a progressive press and IF I was planning on using Once Fired Lake City 7.62 NATO brass and IF I intended to load large volumes of ammunition, I'd look for one that can perform all of those tedious laborious brass prep functions first and foremost because the bulk of your reloading time will be spent prepping those cases.

And you could always just buy non-military brass but that has been intermittently difficult to acquire for some time now. It's federal law that the US military can't scrap their cases, they have to sell it to us so there's almost always an abundant supply of it available as opposed to the intermittently available commercial .308 brass. The most expensive brands of premium .308 brass are almost always available but, if you're mostly shooting/reloading for semi-auto rifle, (unless you're rich) you aren't going to want to feed it the premium commercial brass because it's really expensive and it tends to get pretty beat up when run through a semi-auto rifle and a reloading press multiple times. It's great for bolt guns of course but most people don't run large volumes of Lapua brass through their semi-automatic modern sporting rifles so, that leaves the Lake City Once Fired through a machine gun brass as the least worst option IMO. And it works pretty OK if you do your part. Better than trashing a bunch of Lapua brass and it's really easy to stockpile thousands of them too.

 

[Russ57]

How many of you would say a case gauge is worth paying for when reloading low pressure straight wall pistol ammo?

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Lighten up, Francis.

So when are you going to do so yourself now?

Never said it was the 'only way,' I only suggested that it was the way I recommended, and my reasons why. I also suggested there was a small quotient of people that might successfully take a progressive, and as a novice reloader, produce reasonable and safe ammo, right out of the gate. I am in no was suggesting a single-stage press should be used forever and ever; just like the progressive, the single-stage is a useful tool in it's own right. Again, I'm thinking of my own experience... doing it on my own, with no mentor... and at the time, no internet.

Your speech was making it being read as your way or the highway, FYI. And I am going to tell you that there's more than a small amount that could do it, you used an appeals to the unknown by superimposing your own personal experiences into this equation. My god man, we can't even all agree on what type of optic, what type of light, where the light goes, what trigger, etc., etc., on a rifle or a pistol but you are trying to use yourself as the sole reason why no one else cannot but only a handful?? lol, no.

Wrong, again. It's not about making better ammo, it's about learning the whole process safely and with some potential for success. By throwing in the complexity of setting up and operating a progressive on top of the task of learning to reload, you are taking a portion of the attention the novice should be pouring into the reloading process... and diverting it to the mechanics of the press. I remember when I got my ProJector (predecessor to the LNL...) It was a royal pain to get set and running where... finally... one pull of the handle spit out a serviceable cartridge. Granted, newer presses are likely better... I don't really know, I'm still on my ProJector.

You can still do that with a progressive auto indexer even. And if you think a progressive is complexed, then that would also be said for a single as well. And no, there are and won't be any diversions because now you are adding your own OCD into the mix which is superimposing.

Again, you can do both and again, you are still trying to tell me your way is the only way to which you are still wrong about that. Your second commentary rebuttal is hypocrisy in the making of.

I digress. You are stuck in your ways and won't budge. I too am stuck in disagreeing with you because you won't even take a common ground and agree that there is no wrong answer here in which press to learn on, despite it actually being true. So let's agree to disagree and move on, please.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Fellas, I disagree. I did a lot of research before deciding my first press would be a Dillon 650.

If I can learn on it then anyone can. Absolutely no regrets

I said single because starting out can eat a lot of money if not careful. And I do agree with you on that.

 

[hk940]

A big mistake was selling off a 5 gal pail of 7.62 match brass a friend of mine gave me (10+ years ago). But brass at the time, brass scrap was insanely high, I think I got $170.00 for a five gallon pail.
I save all brass now!

 

[Nature Boy]

By throwing in the complexity of setting up and operating a progressive on top of the task of learning to reload, you are taking a portion of the attention the novice should be pouring into the reloading process... and diverting it to the mechanics of the press.

I have to disagree again. With dedicated tool heads a progressive is easier than a single stage. I also contend that with a powder check in place it’s also safer.

 

[ballman6711]

How many of you would say a case gauge is worth paying for when reloading low pressure straight wall pistol ammo?

Use your barrel or your cylinder if it's a revolver. Use a gauge if you are doing a lot at one time, something like one of those 100 piece Hundo's.

chris

 

[50of4064]

Waiter, can we get a second round over here?

 

[AJC1]

100%! I don’t not use a progressive because I can’t figure it out or don’t understand the processes involved. Just the opposite, I don’t use a progressive because I understand the process extremely well and know it’s not compatible with my shooting, loading, or lifestyle. I shoot seldom, but when I shoot it’s a varied menu - from .32Short to .45Colt, possibly some .32ACP and a .45ACP, possibly a .30Carbine or .351 Winchester, all in one outing. I’m not shooting hundreds of rounds, I’m shooting a dozen or fewer. Of each. I may collect dirty brass until I have enough to process to fill a box or I may load the one or two of each caliber I shot and refill the box they came out of. It’s up to me and I like that flexibility. If I had to reset a progressive for six or ten or two rounds I wouldn’t. But I can sit outside with the hand press or a whack-a-mole and do the same job, just as well, maybe better, than if I had setup a progressive. I don’t have a “reloading room” - the world is my reloading room! - I have a mobile and lightweight reloading setup I can take anywhere, anytime, to reload anything.

I’m not knocking progressives or the cavemen who secure themselves in isolation to use them - but it’s not for me. That’s why I don’t use one. I think any reasonably intelligent human being can learn any task and most can learn it well.

I'm in the same camp because I'm doing different cases, different charges and different bullets. I would spend my entire life in a dynamic change negating any speed a progressive gives. If you shoot a developed load in bulk a progressive is your huckleberry. If you change things a lot in the name of testing and load development not so much. The best tool is applied to work for the result that is needed.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So when are you going to do so yourself now?



Your speech was making it being read as your way or the highway, FYI. And I am going to tell you that there's more than a small amount that could do it, you used an appeals to the unknown by superimposing your own personal experiences into this equation. My god man, we can't even all agree on what type of optic, what type of light, where the light goes, what trigger, etc., etc., on a rifle or a pistol but you are trying to use yourself as the sole reason why no one else cannot but only a handful?? lol, no.



You can still do that with a progressive auto indexer even. And if you think a progressive is complexed, then that would also be said for a single as well. And no, there are and won't be any diversions because now you are adding your own OCD into the mix which is superimposing.

Again, you can do both and again, you are still trying to tell me your way is the only way to which you are still wrong about that. Your second commentary rebuttal is hypocrisy in the making of.

I digress. You are stuck in your ways and won't budge. I too am stuck in disagreeing with you because you won't even take a common ground and agree that there is no wrong answer here in which press to learn on, despite it actually being true. So let's agree to disagree and move on, please.

Yeah, and that’s the unprovoked personal attack that put you on my ignore list.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have to disagree again. With dedicated tool heads a progressive is easier than a single stage. I also contend that with a powder check in place it’s also safer.

Nah. Apples, oranges, loquats, limes and bananas. Nothing personal and all due respect but, without being able to evaluate every single individual you’re just projecting. Cut it out, quit the chest thumping, and give the rest of the world credit for being able to think for ourselves. Maybe the OP will do great work with a $50 used Lyman and maybe he can’t tie his shoes without banging his head. None one of us knows for sure. Right?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

How many of you would say a case gauge is worth paying for when reloading low pressure straight wall pistol ammo?

Meh. If you reload for a dozen pistols or rifles with very different characteristics and you need one load that works in all of them, a SAAMI minimum spec gauge is useful. Otherwise unless you just really like plonking cartridges in and out of a gauge it’s probably not worth the money.

 

[AJC1]

Meh. If you reload for a dozen pistols or rifles with very different characteristics and you need one load that works in all of them, a SAAMI minimum spec gauge is useful. Otherwise unless you just really like plonking cartridges in and out of a gauge it’s probably not worth the money.

I like the one I have for 45 because my kimber is a pain to take apart for checking crimp. My glock in 9mm was so easy I just popped out the barrel. So I'd say it's dependant on how easy it is to pop out the barrel for testing.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I like the one I have for 45 because my kimber is a pain to take apart for checking crimp. My glock in 9mm was so easy I just popped out the barrel. So I'd say it's dependant on how easy it is to pop out the barrel for testing.

Ah, yes! That too!

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Yeah, and that’s the unprovoked personal attack that put you on my ignore list.

That...never happened. But okay then I guess.