Loosening the strain screw on a S&W Model 22?

Is "adjusting" the strain screw a proper way to modify trigger pull?

  • Sure, get out the screwdriver!

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • Stan doesn't know what he's talking about!

    Votes: 37 78.7%
  • What's a strain screw?

    Votes: 5 10.6%

  • Total voters
    47
Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnKSa

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
20,240
Location
DFW Area
I just finished reading a S&W Model 22 review by Stan Trzoniec in which he mentions that: "For those who like to tinker with the trigger pull, the strain screw is exposed on the inside of the grip frame and can be adjusted within limits."

Kind of surprised me to see that in print as it seems common to read just the opposite online.

I'm not a S&W revolver guru, so what's the verdict?
 
Just like Mr Trzoniec says: "within limits", it will work.
Note he does not talk about an action tuning job here.
 
Loosening the strain screw is the fast track to "misfires".
A proper "trigger job" on an S&W revolver is accomplished through stoning/polishing.
 
Mike Carmoney disagrees with the notion. My experience, such as it is, matches this. Keep it tightened down or it will back out.
 
Just like Mr Trzoniec says: "within limits", it will work.
Note he does not talk about an action tuning job here.

It'll work great, until it backs out enough at the next match to cause 6 or 7 light strikes on an El Pres.

Like many writers, he tossed in a statement (for whatever reason) and then qualified it to the point of meaninglessness. Well, yes, it can be adjusted within limits. The limits in this case are "tightened down and works all the time" and "loosened up and doesn't." Such tinkering is certainly possible, as he says, though I can't understand how it would be desirable.
 
To do it right you would need to file the tip of the strain screw down so that it gives the pressure you desire but as others mention that will lead to missfires if you go too far. Leaving it loose is not the way to do it.
 
Ask Smith & Wesson... :what:

When tensioned by the screw, the leaf mainspring is bowed. The shape of that bow is important. When you shorten the screw the curve becomes straighter, and that isn't good.

Tampering with the spring and spring tension is questionable at best, but if one wants to do it, it is much better to use a thiner spring, and keep the screw as it is.

Personally, I simply train my revolver's hammer to rotate and then fall when I say, JUMP! This way it isn't necessary to touch or pull the trigger at all. It's the lightest double-action trigger pull you'll ever get. :evil: :D
 
Loosening the strain screw is the fast track to "misfires".
I bought a police surplus 3" S&W Model 65. It had a lot of failures to fire, even though there was nothing obviously wrong, apart from minor timing issues. I'd seen plenty of problems with other guns because of loose strain screws, but the strain screw was in tight. My gunsmith checked everything he could think of and it was still unreliable. I'd recently seen something online somewhere and I suggested to him that he measure the strain screw. He did, and it had obviously been cut short and reinstalled.

If you want a trigger job, get a trigger job. Loosening or shortening the strain screw isn't the way to do that.
 
Well, I can't say I'm surprised at the results of the poll so far. I am still surprised that a well-known gun writer would advise tinkering with the strain screw.
 
Deanimator said:
My gunsmith checked everything he could think of and it was still unreliable. I'd recently seen something online somewhere and I suggested to him that he measure the strain screw. He did, and it had obviously been cut short and reinstalled.

Your telling me your gunsmith didn't check the strain screw length for a missfire problem? I suggest you find a real gunsmith.

I have been polishing ramps and adjusting my own strain screw lengths and changing springs for years. Never have missfires and I have some guns that are butter smooth and will compare them to any PC or python any day of the week.
 
I have been polishing ramps and adjusting my own strain screw lengths and changing springs for years.

That 'cuz all of them incompetent engineers and workers at the factory don't know the right way too do things. Fortunately you can set things right... :rolleyes:
 
Old Fuff said:
That 'cuz all of them incompetent engineers and workers at the factory don't know the right way too do things. Fortunately you can set things right...

Well I have to ask if you have been to the smith and wesson factory? For the most part it is lines of cnc machines and very little hand fitting goes into the current production guns. But how dare I disagree that the gun can be improved on, we all know that assembly line guns are as good as they can be and no improvements can be made...... SHeeeessshhhhhhhhh
 
Is "adjusting" the strain screw a proper way to modify trigger pull?

Some do it, Im sure most do not. Personally, as stated several times before, messing with this is just asking for trouble. Frankly, Id be more concerned with keeping this screw tight.

Of course, Im not a huge fan of modifying trigger action/pull for ANY weapon. Particularly those used for home defense or personal defense purposes. For me, the liability factors are just too high.

Now, I might see the need for a legitimate (ie. professional) trigger job when it comes to guns used for competition.
 
Last edited:
If the strain screw was meant to be used for adjustment, why doesn't it click when you turn it???
 
Well I have to ask if you have been to the smith and wesson factory?

A number of times, on Roosevelt Ave. Even before there were long lines of cnc machines...

But how dare I disagree that the gun can be improved on, we all know that assembly line guns are as good as they can be and no improvements can be made......

I didn't say that improvements couldn't be made, just pointed out that fooling around with the strain screw wasn't a good idea - and why it wasn't a good idea. Anybody who doubts what I (or you) said can give S&W a call, and someone will set them straight about the issue. They might also point out that when they do an action job on a "street gun" they don't fool with spring tensions. Of course not everyone has your expertise... :)
 
OldFuff forgive me, you are wise beyond your years I'm sure.

I'm sure these guys at wolff are all wrong, how dare they sell different springs. Maybe you should email them and tell them how wrong they are to change things they shouldn't.
rofl.gif


Remember just because it isn't for you doesn't make it wrong, it just means I don't do things the same way you do.

http://www.gunsprings.com/Revolver/SmithWesson_RvNF.html
 
Last edited:
I'm sure these guys as wolf are all wrong, how dare they sell different springs
But they still follow the Geometry that was set forth by S&W, they just use thinner or narrower spring stock.

Leave the Strain Screw in and get a GOOD 'smith to fiddle with it.
 
Brian you mean like the one that didn't know to check the strain screw length knowing that some smiths have been shortening them for as long as I can remember? Over the years I have seen some real hacks out there, if you can't fix it yourself or don't know for sure your smith knows what he is doing then send it back to smith and wesson is my advice. To think that people can't repair or adjust guns made with what 8 moving pieces designed with 1900 technology is so wrong.
 
Quote from post #7

Tampering with the spring and spring tension is questionable at best, but if one wants to do it, it is much better to use a thinner spring, and keep the screw as it is.

Somehow I think I'm wasting bandwidth. After all, if it's your gun I have no business telling you or anyone else what to do, or not do. It's time for me to go find a different thread. :cool:
 
Pwrtool45 has it

in post #4. Read the link if you haven't already. I do my own trigger jobs, not because I'm the best at it, but because I want to learn everything about it. If I ever outsourced one Mike Carnoney has my business. Much of it has to do with the primer being used and how hard it is to ignite that particular brand, Federals being the easiest with the largest sweet spot. :eek:
 
I've never messed with the strain screw on my Smiths, except when disassembling, of course. A proper action job is the way to go, IMO. Even so, I didn't know this:
When tensioned by the screw, the leaf mainspring is bowed. The shape of that bow is important. When you shorten the screw the curve becomes straighter, and that isn't good.

I learn something new everyday, thanks Fuff!

Many folks are not aware the S&W's Master Revolver Action Package is only $140...

Anyone have experience with this? Do they turn out as good as S&W used to sell them out-of-the box in the pre-war days? I ask because man-o-man, do those prewar guns have some silky slick actions. I'd love to have all my Smiths professionally tuned. Even my K-22 Model 17-0 could use some work (the DA pull is good, but not great).
 
You can loosen the screw a little to make a small difference in trigger pull. Too much though and you will cause problems. People that claim it isn't possible w/o problems are probably the ones that have never tried. It does work. Is it worth it? Is it going to make a big enough difference? Probably not, if you only move the screw a small amount to maintain reliability.
 
Anyone have experience with this? Do they turn out as good as S&W used to sell them out-of-the box in the pre-war days? I ask because man-o-man, do those prewar guns have some silky slick actions. I'd love to have all my Smiths professionally tuned. Even my K-22 Model 17-0 could use some work (the DA pull is good, but not great).

They come close, but the pre-war (and some early post-war production) revolvers had what are called "long actions." This means that the hammer rotates further back then the newer "short action." It was made to shorten the thumb-cocking stroke and please bullseye target shooters. But all things being equal, when you shorten the hammer's rotation distance you have to increase mainspring tension to get reliable ignition.

My experience has been that no matter how good you can get a short-action, a long one can be made a little better - but maybe not enough better to matter in the real world. Without question, the folks at the factory can get everything out of a short-action revolver that it can give.
 
While not as experienced as a OldFluff, I am going to give a BIG "NO" on messing with the strain screw. I am not familiar with Mr. Trzoneic as a writer I follow, and I don't know how deep his knowledge of S&W actions are. But in my experience I have learned a factory-length strain screw and factory mainspring are critical to consistent function, and improvements in trigger action or feel should be sought elsewhere (and not monkeying with trigger/hammer sear angles, either!).

1) The geometry of the screw is important to the hammer action as Old Fluff has described.

2) A more difficult, but safer way to lighten the stroke is to lighten the recoil spring.

3) I believe that Wolff warns on their web page that changing out the mainspring has a good change to result in mis-fires.

4) Loosening the strain screw removes all long-term consistency in the mainspring action:

Those with some knowledge of machine tooling and metallurgy understand that it is the torque applied when tightening a screw or bolt that determines it's security. Basically, the heat generated by the friction of the torquing "micro-welds" the two sets of threads together. If the screw is loose, it has no tension and will back out in small increments under each load.

Long action vs. short action

jad0110 - as OldFluff stated, the early guns have a different angular rotation in the hammer. This dramatically alters the trigger pressure during the firing arc of the trigger. On "short actions," the same amount of pressure has to be generated with a) the same arc of the trigger, but b) a shorter hammer arc. This change started in 1947 on the K frame and I think all models were converted to the modern "short action" by the end of 1949. The easiest way to tell the difference is to examine the hammer. The "long action" triggers have a trigger that moves back in one smooth top line, as opposed to the "notched" style characteristic of the short action. Start at the front of the hammer and let your eye trace the top silhouette. If it moves back gently, it's a long action. If it plunges down into a "V" then rises to the thumb rest, it's a short action. See the photos below for a comparison and look at the spot I am talking about. I will try to choose two photos in the same angle to make it easier, just follow the top line of the hammer and the difference is obvious. Once you see the difference, you'll be able to spot it instantly on any S&W you look at and immediately know if it's a short or long action.

The other obvious way to view this is to look at the radius of the hammer that emerges from the knuckle of the frame - see how much more of the "long action" type has to rotate backwards to meet the knuckle vs. the "short action"? As degrees of the absolute rotation about the axis it's small, but in percentage of what the thumb rotoates (or how far the firing pin has to fall to hit the primer), it's a large percentage of difference.

Another footnote is that not all "long action" mainsprings are the same. I have been told and experienced with one of my guns (a military WWI model), that military models (2nd model .455s, and war-time 1917s) were made with slightly stiffer mainsprings than commercial models to deal with harder military primers of the time. This is just a footnote for those really into this subject - and also to know that a nice way to smooth up a vintage .455 or 1917 is to switch out to modern mainspring (keeping the original stored along with the gun in an airtight bag with the s/n of the gun on a scrap of paper, of course!).

It was made to shorten the thumb-cocking stroke and please bullseye target shooters.

I was always told it was to decrease the lock time as the hammer fell, but perhaps I am wrong or maybe that is what you had in mind and said it in reference to the cocking action as opposed to the hammer fall.

1) "Long action" S&W, K frames 1899-c.1947, N frames 1909-c.1949:
IMGP2665.jpg

2) "Short action", various frames 1947 and later:
IMGP3119.jpg
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top