Lost confidence in Hornady Critical Defense

[icanthitabarn]

All I know is that I have a full box of their .357. I read all this talk and reboxed it all. I trust my reloads.

 

[Bovice]

I don't like CD. TAP FPD is better.

Although my pistol is loaded with my own proven XTP rounds.

 

[HadEmAll]

I agree with your concern. I bought a total of 1000 rounds of .40 Federal Classic 155 grain JHPs from an online retailer. Actually two orders of 500 each, but the same lot. Out of the first 500, I had two duds, good hit on the primer, no combustion. On repeted attempts, neither fired. Made me suspect that was why it was out there for such a good price. Probably rejected by some agency. The rest of it is just range ammo to me now. Why would I risk it? I can't have doubts about what I'm carrying.

Of course Federal is a good ammo maker, just like Hornady, but you don't know how it was stored, transported, etc. Exposed to high heat, humidity, etc.

I don't believe Ruger recommends +P in the LCP. Of course it's your pistol.

The Speer 90 grain Gold Dot, and the Winchester 95 grain Ranger JHP are tied for the hottest standard pressure .380's I've chronographed out of my LCP. Both rang up 877 fps for 5 shot averages.

Back when I reloaded for my .357 magnum, I claimed my reloads were superior to factory stuff too. And they probably were. I thought I too was past screwing up. But one batch of 100, I missed a row of 5 in adding powder to the case. Fortunately I discovered this at the range, and not in a social situation. So this was 5 out of a 100 that didn't fire. No factory ammo has probably ever had a 5% failure rate like I did that day.

 

[Didereaux]

MARCODO asked "Anyone with Buffalo Bore ammo and LCP experience? Not sure which one to order."

DO NOT use any +P ammo in the new plastic guns. Alloy frames are okay, but NOT the poly's. No mfr will warrant a poly frame gun that has fired +P.


Another compelling reason you should plunk down the extra bucks for a well built all METAL pistol to be used for carry purposes. Use the poly's at the range with target ammo. use a REAL gun and REAL ammo to protect yourself.

 

[Lawdawg45]

I've also found that most of the Hornaday line is light and under powered. Their Critical Duty round is the only one that meets minimum FBI penetration requirements. Lose the Hornaday and buy Speer gold Dots!

LD

 

[marcodo]

Well, I emailed Hornady. I received a reply that asked me to call them. I spoke with them on the phone and they said they would arrange to have the ammo sent back to be tested and replace them if they found a problem.
No refund. I did ask how they "test it". Apparently they shoot between 5-10 rounds and if no problem your good to go.
Decided just to shoot it and see...just wasn't worth the effort

Of note, when asked if he had heard of other similar issues, the answer was "No"...interesting I guess

I got Buffalo Bore 95g FPFMJ standard pressure rounds on the way for testing

 

[rswartsell]

Do what you will, but just my humble opinion about using a long time reliable, established company like Hornady. If you experience a malfunction or maybe 2, it is in your best interest to keep the box it came in and notify the company giving them all the info you can (assuming you suspect the ammunition is truly faulty). No-one that has been in the game for long is going to give away the farm to every unknown quantity that calls to bitch, especially if they can't determine for sure it was the ammo that was at fault. If it was YOUR company, you wouldn't let them.

If you can provide them enough information and the ammo DOES prove to be faulty, you have every right to expect the producer to make it right, and further to expect truly quality companies to be truly interested in doing so.

Disseminating the results of an experience with faulty ammo is expected, this is the information age and they know that. There are many that do not or cannot eliminate enough variables to say for sure IT WAS the ammo. That doesn't stop them from disseminating partial or suspect information as fact.

At this point I am more convinced by Hornady's track record of providing high quality ammunition and components for more than one generation with shooters all over the world trusting them. Let us know how this pans out as the dissemination of known facts about products and providers is a good reason for forums like this to exist.

Partial information accepted as fact, bashing without established cause and internet rumor supplanting verifiable fact is, for me at least of very little interest.

P.S. If some reason other that malfunction causes you to prefer another manufacturer, so be it and vote with your pocketbook. If you claim the product faulty or the manufacturer is unresponsive, I give credibility to fact over speculation.

 

[easyg]

DO NOT use any +P ammo in the new plastic guns. Alloy frames are okay, but NOT the poly's. No mfr will warrant a poly frame gun that has fired +P.

I don't know where you heard this but it is simply not true.

Check out Ruger's website...

http://www.ruger.com/service/FAQs.html

What type of ammunition should I use in my Ruger 9mm pistol?

The Ruger 9mm pistols are chambered for the 9x19mm NATO Parabellum (9mm Luger) cartridge, compatible with the U.S. and foreign military or commercial 9x19mm loads manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards, including high-velocity, subsonic, tracer, hollow point, ammunition loaded in aluminum, steel, or brass cartridge cases, +P and +P+ ammunition. Note: The LC9™ is not rated for +P+ ammunition.

With the exception of the LC9, all of Ruger's polymer framed 9mm pistols are fine firing even 9mm+P+.

 

[marcodo]

RSWarsell...not exactly sure what you are saying but I am merely letting people know what happen to me personally. I had 2, and in my opinion, very serious issues with Critical defense.

A quick search suggests that this may not be an isolated event.

I think some of us find it interesting.

I'm am not bashing anything, just telling you what happened to me...take it simply for that.

I called Hornady to let them know. I decided not to send it back due to the hassel and the fact it was not going to change my mind. I did not want the ammo replaced

I have decided Critical Defense, at least in 380, is not what I am carrying anymore.

 

[ny32182]

The only way to KNOW for sure what is in the load, is to load it yourself.

That said I carry factory Gold Dots, because they they are so popular with police across the country. This is a case of letting those with large budgets do the testing for me.

If I had two squibs I would switch brands too.

 

[rem44m]

To the OP, I have heard of this "Psst" problem SEVERAL times before. I personally would not use the Hornady CD for self defense.

Out of my experience, the HST's are the way to go. If they function well out of your guns that is the round I would go with and trust my life with. Gold dots are good too.

 

[Doc3402]

I know I'm a little late posting, and I know this might be a stupid question, but here goes. Are you using any kind of penetrating lubricant on your guns? Something along the lines of WD-40? If you are, please don't. Penetrating oil will penetrate a primer pocket causing incomplete ignition.

If you are not, and you had two squib rounds, I would switch ammo, too. My life is important to me, but a squib if I was protecting my daughter or granddaughter would be a tragedy. I just pity you having to go through the torture of going to the range and doing ammo tests. No I don't. Who am I kidding?

 

[rswartsell]

marcodo,

Rereading my post I am somewhat embarrassed . I assure you I meant no offense and was not intending to question you. I was speaking to using the internet or more specifically this forum to keep manufacturers feet to the fire.

If you have no interest in doing so and just wish to change brands that is surely your prerogative.

My humble apologies.

 

[Lawdawg45]

]i know the traditional answer about buy your defense ammo, don't make a bullet designed to kill someone etc[/B]..... but many of my law enforcement friends agree, as an amatur reloader and shooter, carrying your reloads for defense is not a mortal sin in the court room, because i carried a reloaded round in my defence weapon " i did so because it was as much of a humane bullet that i could carry" "if...i wanted to have a bullet specificaly to kill someone i'd have bought...(take your pick)...anyway, their all deadly and i like my 38spc 147 grn silver tips with 4.3 gr of red dot, and 250gr hornady sst fmjhp .45 longcolts with 8 gr of unique, i don't reload 380 so usually a basic hp does me fine, in the end it comes down to shot placement and a good dbl tap, i don't wake up hoping to use my defense weapon, and god i hope that i never have to, but chances are i could easily be one of my reloads or a factory bought bullet, the bottom line circumstances will determine the courts decision in the end.

Unfortunately after 30 years in LE, I've seen the depths that Lawyers will sink to while defending pond scum. They can (and will) make a case out of you buying retail ammo over reloads. They will take issue with you buying JHP's over LRN or using .357's over a .38. I've seen them even try and implicate someone choosing a 9mm over a .22, trying to paint them as a doomsday killer. Carry what will get the job done, act within the guidelines of your local jurisdiction, and don't leave a witness to testify against you!

LD

 

[marcodo]

No problem RS, its all good

No WD40, just some regular gun oil like usual

For me personally, I have always favored quality factory rounds for personal carry...but this kinda of stuff does make you wonder

 

[orionengnr]

I know I'm a little late posting, and I know this might be a stupid question, but here goes. Are you using any kind of penetrating lubricant on your guns? Something along the lines of WD-40? If you are, please don't. Penetrating oil will penetrate a primer pocket causing incomplete ignition.

I have seen this assertion, but have never seen any supporting evidence. me and my S&W 340 (fully loaded) went swimming unintentionally several times. Me and my Kahr PM9 went swimming at least once.

I blasted the pistols and the ammo with WD40, wiped them down and threw the ammo into the "burn bag"...fired them all the next range session. No malfunctions.

If you do some searching, I think that you will find that modern factory ammo is pretty well sealed, and impervious to water, WD40 and pretty much anything else..

 

[Beaux Nehr]

MARCODO asked "Anyone with Buffalo Bore ammo and LCP experience? Not sure which one to order."

DO NOT use any +P ammo in the new plastic guns. Alloy frames are okay, but NOT the poly's. No mfr will warrant a poly frame gun that has fired +P.


Another compelling reason you should plunk down the extra bucks for a well built all METAL pistol to be used for carry purposes. Use the poly's at the range with target ammo. use a REAL gun and REAL ammo to protect yourself.

I guess there are still some very uninformed people in the THR community.

Praytell, what part of an autoloader's frame experiences the increased pressure from a +p round?

 

[mec]

I have noticed that factory rounds (and reloads) but particularly factory rounds using monolithic, lead free hollow points tend to loosen the case grip on the bullet after they have been cycled in and out of the chamber a few times. Some of them make the fizz-pop sound mentioned above and behave like squibs.
I am sure that you have taken this into account and dismissed it as a possible problem with the rounds you found defective.

 

[marcodo]

Interesting thought. The second episode it was the fourth round from the mag...not usually a round that is repeatedly rechambered.

Honestly I dont recall which round it was the first time