At approximately what round count would you cut off something in the price range of the RIA? Total for the life of the gun, not including major repair work/rebuild/etc. When you say 300 per year, what are you figuring for the life of the gun?
Low cost, US made 1911?
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JTQ
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So I guess the question would be why are you on a thread where the OP is looking for a "Low cost, US made 1911?". The OP want's a 1911. We get that you don't. What is it you have to offer to this thread?
The point is the S&W N-Frame revolvers, made of steel, and size equivalent to S&W's 1911 are priced in the same ball park as the S&W 1911's. Your GP100 is made by a different maker and the 642 is a significantly smaller gun.
Skylerbone
Member
What's getting lost is perspective, something rellascout was on to in-so-far as honest assessment of use. And while the RIA Tactical is cheaper than an STI that STI's owner will benefit from better internals, better fit and better sights. Ditto with the Ruger and either one at less than $200 more than a Glock.
Ammo wise I load store bought cast bullets at a cost of $706/5000. I don't, however think initial cost is the issue the OP is primarily concerned with. Like so many others he has no doubt read the horror stories of troubled 1911s and their owners who got burned. The reviews of first time buyers who were no more overwhelmed than when they shot their first J-Frame. The thoughts of a $2000 pistol gathering dust in the safe is enough to give anyone pause. Some of us enjoy the 1911, others don't. It's testing the water without getting soaked.
Ammo wise I load store bought cast bullets at a cost of $706/5000. I don't, however think initial cost is the issue the OP is primarily concerned with. Like so many others he has no doubt read the horror stories of troubled 1911s and their owners who got burned. The reviews of first time buyers who were no more overwhelmed than when they shot their first J-Frame. The thoughts of a $2000 pistol gathering dust in the safe is enough to give anyone pause. Some of us enjoy the 1911, others don't. It's testing the water without getting soaked.
MachIVshooter
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The dust cover of one I looked at awhile back. It seems in checking on it that the ones made under Kahr are US built and not using phillipino parts. It also seems that quality is still spotty, though improved.
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JTQ
Member
Take a look at the link I provided earlier.
M1911.org review
http://ezine.m1911.org/AO1911A1.htm
If you break out your magnifying glass you can see the Worcester, MA stamp on the frame of the Auto Ordnance. Kahr has owned them since about 2000 and for most of that time production has been in Mass. Prior to that they were made in New York.
Edit: Nevermind,this is way off topic, you're right about that. I'll just chalk it up to "I don't get it" and revisit it at a time when I feel the need to scratch the 1911 itch. That Smith and Wesson 1911 I just looked at does look pretty sweet.
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I understood the Pinto reference immediately and it's a good example of how lower end 1911s are built...I may have to steal it to use. I feel the same way about my 1999 MB ML-350, it was built to a price point and you have to understand it going in.
My personal opinion is that a well built and equipped production 1911 is correctly priced at $2000-$2500. You can actually get a better gun from a custom smith for less
There is an unusual sweet spot for value at $1200-$1500.
Granted my view is bias toward defensive use, rather than casual use. There was a study, a while back, by a major domestic manufacturer that produced the 2500rds number of what most owners would put through their guns during their ownership.
For the OP. Your best bet, if you are determined to stay with domestic manufacture seems to be Ruger, with a nod to the Kahr built Auto-Ordance as a possible alternative...trading price for assured build quality and features. If you are willing to look overseas, the RIA is another pretty obvious choice at that end of the 1911 market
Skylerbone
Member
Not to continue the mayhem further but the Ruger GP series is analogous to the question at hand as to what might be gained by an expanded budget in the 1911 world.
The last revolver world championships involved some 300+ competitors. Old Jerry M. took the crown (again) with his S&W but then he's paid to shoot them. Thing is, only 3 competitors used revolvers manufactured by anyone other than S&W. If they were all the same with regard to quality, longevity and feel, having only price to differentiate one from the other then surely competitors would jump at the chance for sponsorship dollars from the likes of Ruger, Taurus, Chiappa and the rest. The fact that they don't tells the rest of the story on why Smith can and does charge $1,000 for a revolver and why so many professionals holstered them for decades.
I'm not knocking Ruger's revolver line, I've got one myself but as rella stated so clearly "they are what they are". The reason for moving one notch higher is to maximize the OP's likelihood of a good first impression with the 1911, to experience the wow so many others have and to empty his wallet while he seeks a second, third and fourth 1911. Someone has to jump-start the economy, standing in parks isn't cutting it.
The last revolver world championships involved some 300+ competitors. Old Jerry M. took the crown (again) with his S&W but then he's paid to shoot them. Thing is, only 3 competitors used revolvers manufactured by anyone other than S&W. If they were all the same with regard to quality, longevity and feel, having only price to differentiate one from the other then surely competitors would jump at the chance for sponsorship dollars from the likes of Ruger, Taurus, Chiappa and the rest. The fact that they don't tells the rest of the story on why Smith can and does charge $1,000 for a revolver and why so many professionals holstered them for decades.
I'm not knocking Ruger's revolver line, I've got one myself but as rella stated so clearly "they are what they are". The reason for moving one notch higher is to maximize the OP's likelihood of a good first impression with the 1911, to experience the wow so many others have and to empty his wallet while he seeks a second, third and fourth 1911. Someone has to jump-start the economy, standing in parks isn't cutting it.
When it comes to "they are what they are" I went with the Ruger GP100 over a Smith not because it was $100 less but because virtually ever single person said the Ruger would do a better job standing up to full house .357 loads, especially the lighter/faster bullets.
I understand how we got there, but can we please have the revolver discussion on another thread...also on the other subforum
docnyt
Member
Unfortunately or fortunately the Philippines never was a US territory. It actually declared independence from Spain in 1898 but this was never recognized by the US. After the Spanish-American war, the US "acquired" sovereignty and finally became officially recognized in 1946. Up until then, independence was celebrated on July 4th, same as the US. Then this was changed back to June 12th, to celebrate the original declaration in 1898.
RickMD
Member
The Philippines is an independent country and is not a US territory.
mgmorden
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<retracted>
loadedround
Member
I too have to chime in and recommend the Ruger SR1911. I've had one for several months now and have found it to be a very well made firearm, accurate, and priced reasonably. If you don't mind a long wait or possibly get lucky, you should be able to pick one up for less than 650.00. 
Wow thanks for all the help, everybody.
If I had to sum it up I would say that Skylerbone knows exactly what I am trying to accomplish. I have never even shot a 1911 before and I want to make sure they are what I am looking for before I drop over $1000 bucks on one.
I think I am going to have to go with the RIA. I would consider the Ruger but I am not a huge fan of SS pistols, from a looks perspective. I can't believe they only make it in stainless. The only reason I am going RIA is that between the two that I felt meet my "demo unit" price point (the other being the Spartan) the Rock Island is cheaper...
They actually have 2 RIA 1911s at my LGS for $409 each.
You guys are awesome!
If I had to sum it up I would say that Skylerbone knows exactly what I am trying to accomplish. I have never even shot a 1911 before and I want to make sure they are what I am looking for before I drop over $1000 bucks on one.
I think I am going to have to go with the RIA. I would consider the Ruger but I am not a huge fan of SS pistols, from a looks perspective. I can't believe they only make it in stainless. The only reason I am going RIA is that between the two that I felt meet my "demo unit" price point (the other being the Spartan) the Rock Island is cheaper...
They actually have 2 RIA 1911s at my LGS for $409 each.
You guys are awesome!
huntsman
Member
how about naming some names, maybe we can get the OP to spend more
and for my sake any without MIM and plastic?
I don't think the OP is that interested, his concerns and interest have clearly been met by explanation of the levels of 1911 function already laid out...I think the RIA line is a good place to test the 1911 waters.how about naming some names, maybe we can get the OP to spend more
and for my sake any without MIM and plastic?
I don't track MIM or plastic content in 1911s, or any other guns for that matter, because almost everything is easily replaceable on that platform...it is simply a matter of desire and pocketbook. I'll note that you have to get up to about the $4000 level to have no cast parts in your 1911...as it comes from a manufacturer.
The two 1911s that I usually recognize in the sweet spot, I'm sure there are more, are the Dan Wesson CBOB and the STI Trojan...both offer a lot for their going price
rellascout
member
Dan Wesson Heritage fits the bill but you are looking at $1200+. You can also find Stainless Valors at about $1500. I also like base Colts with customization which can be done for under $1500. Used Les Baers are also in play I paid about that for my TRS LNIB.
sleepyone
Member
+1 on the Full-size Colt XSE. I just bought one for $978 all-in. Gun was $913. S/H $30 and FFL $35 so you might save a little more if you can find a cheaper FFL. Ours are expensive.
I applaud you on your decision to buy only USA made by a USA owned company. I have that same conviction and don't feel I am missing out when I can buy from Winchester, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Remington, Marlin, Dan Wesson and a myriad of high end manufacturers like Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Desert Eagle, etc.
Anyway, you could do much worse than a Ruger for your first 1911. I just always wanted a Colt, so I spent the extra $200 to get it over the Ruger. I have not regretted it.
I applaud you on your decision to buy only USA made by a USA owned company. I have that same conviction and don't feel I am missing out when I can buy from Winchester, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Remington, Marlin, Dan Wesson and a myriad of high end manufacturers like Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Desert Eagle, etc.
Anyway, you could do much worse than a Ruger for your first 1911. I just always wanted a Colt, so I spent the extra $200 to get it over the Ruger. I have not regretted it.
Did you even read they thread?sleepyone said:
Just four (4) post above yours, the OP explains his final choice
sleepyone
Member
Yes, I did as a matter of fact. I caught the post to which you are referencing after I posted my reply and then had to deal with a family issue about the same time and never got around to editing it.
Do you proof read your posts?
Hardly ever......but members are usually pretty good about pointing out my mistakes
...but members are usually pretty good about pointing out my mistakes Good choice. The Filipino brands are offering the best value at this time. I'd prefer to buy American, but nothing all American comes close in value for a quality value 1911. Unfortunately, it's the same in many things, but that's another discussion alltogether.
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