Low-tech battle sights?

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cluttonfred

cluttonfred

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As many have noticed, I have a thing for cheap and simple firearms. Along those lines, does anyone have any ideas to share on simple, low-tech substitutes for modern red dot or holographic battle sights?

I am a bit put off by the high tech sights which are often touted as the cat's meow but cost as much if not more than the expensive rifle's that they are mounted on. I am also less than convinced by the idea of relying on anything battery operated.

I have been kicking around ideas and experimenting a little with "poor man's battle sights." For example:
  • 12" long steel tube with a .1" inside diameter
  • 2" bright orange fiber optic inserted in far end
  • 1 1/2" slot cut in tube above fiber optic to let in light
  • black plug for muzzle end of tube
  • clear plug for breech end of tube
  • 10" sight radius, adequate for CQB

It wouldn't be hard to integrate that kind of sight into a simple gun design along with ordinary aperture iron sights for longer ranges. It could even be factory installed, fixed, and set for say 100 years the way that many cheap submachine gun sights were made. The combination would give a both a a close battle sight and longer range precision that would be both more rugged than and a fraction of the cost of more sophisticated sights.

So, let's hear it, lousy idea or something worth pursuing?
 
It seems to me most red dots are set up so you don't have to be looking through it down the center. Even if you are off to the side, you will still be on target. I don't see how that unit will do the same thing. You will need to be consistent on your hold and eye position. I guess it is possible, I just don't see it.
 
briansmithwins

You're right that it's similar to an OEG, but I would hope that a small tube would still allow the user to see the target with the aiming eye. I imagine you could take the tube down as small as about 3/16" and move it out to the barrel to block less of the target. The idea was something that worked like a shotgun bead, but with the tube to force your head (eye) to line up in the same position each time for better consistency. An alternative would be to use a larger hollow tube with the fiber optic bead on a post, like a rough aperture sight.

MechAg94

You are right that most red dots to compensate for parallax, though not perfectly. This would work be a much cheaper, more low-tech solution, somewhere between "big dot" pistol sights and a shotgun bead as there would be some "lining up" to do.

El Tejon

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the whole point of the fiber optic inserts (Tru Glo, Hi Viz, etc.) is to enhance visibility in low light. It would make sense that something that gathers ambient light and sends it back to the shooters eye would be self-adjusting -- the brighter the light, the brighter the dot, and the reverse. Of course, that won't help in complete darkness, but then you likely can't see the target anyway. At least, that's the theory.

Thanks, keep those comments coming!
 
Wide V rear sight. Big white or silver globe front sight. Classic close-in big game hunter style. Minute of elephant, or anything else, at justifiable SD ranges.

Why not go to some sort of glowing insert sight if you must. Brownells has a dozen choices.
 
What's wrong with iron sights? Worked for centuries.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with iron sights, MachIVshooter, in my initial post I said that the gun would still have those. I'm just kicking around ideas for something low-tech to complement iron sights for fast snap shooting at close range.
 
Thanks, Mr_Rogers, I suppose the issue there would be combining those big-game express-type sights for close range with finer sights needed for long range.

The SureSight pistol sights, the trapezoidal sights on the Steyr MA-1 and the triangular or chevron-shaped reticles on various reflex sights also make me think, because they provide a large aiming image but you can still use the "point" of the shape for precision work.
 
wouldn't your reinvention require light and as 60% (or more) of fights take place in low, altered or failing light would not your sight be less than optimal?
Click to expand...
You could solve that problem with the addition of a replaceable and optional tritium tube to light the fiber optic.
 
What's wrong with iron sights? Worked for centuries.
Click to expand...
Sure they worked for centuries. Still do. But that doesn't make it the best method. Black powder worked for centuries as well. We've mostly moved beyond that now.

Iron sights require three points of alignment (rear sight, front sight, target) and the shooters focus needs to be on the front sight. That last part is highly unnatural. When faced with stress, it is instinctive to focus on the threat.

With an occluded sight, you only have two points of alignment (the sight and the target) and you focus on the target and threat area with both eyes open. This makes it more natural to use and much faster.
 
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the whole point of the fiber optic inserts (Tru Glo, Hi Viz, etc.) is to enhance visibility in low light. It would make sense that something that gathers ambient light and sends it back to the shooters eye would be self-adjusting -- the brighter the light, the brighter the dot, and the reverse. Of course, that won't help in complete darkness, but then you likely can't see the target anyway. At least, that's the theory.
Click to expand...
Fiber optics can focus light if designed to do so, but they can not amplify it. If fact, there is loss at the end, compared to what went in the front. Fiber optics will not work in shadow or at night (unless you have a very bright full moon and happen to be catching it right).
 
Someone would have to prove to me that a red-dot is faster then a shotgun bead.

Or any more accurate unless you slow down and take the time to line up the dot precisely.

rcmodel
 
Someone would have to prove to me that a red-dot is faster then a shotgun bead.

Or any more accurate unless you slow down and take the time to line up the dot precisely
Click to expand...
I have a question. Not trying to make a point, just wondering...

When shooting with a bead, how does the alignment work? You sight down the barrel (or rib) right? Do you focus on the target, or the bead?

I'm not a shotgunner. I own just one and hardly ever shoot it.
 
You're right that it's similar to an OEG, but I would hope that a small tube would still allow the user to see the target with the aiming eye.
Click to expand...

The shooter will have to consistently see the target with the aiming eye or you will have all the problems of the OEG. My guess is that people in a hurry will tend to use them like an OEG though since it would lend itself well to that.
 
You focus on the target, DMK. At least, that's how I do it, and I make consistent 4/5s in trap. It's actually kind of half-and-half. Like I never completely focus on the bead, I just use the rail as a sight to the clay, and as long as the clay is floating above the bead, I'm good.
I do all that within about a second and a half. I take longer to shoot than most shotgunners, which is why I work better with a heavier, longer barreled shottie.
 
Originally posted by DMK:
I have a question. Not trying to make a point, just wondering...

When shooting with a bead, how does the alignment work? You sight down the barrel (or rib) right? Do you focus on the target, or the bead?
Click to expand...
Your eye is actually the rear sight, which is why stick fit is so crucially important to successful shotgunning. Oh, and focus more on the target.
 
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