Lying about Groups

Do you exaggerate the size of your groups?

  • Of course I do, doesn't everyone?

    Votes: 9 4.4%

  • No way. Never did, never will.

    Votes: 175 85.4%

  • I'm lying about not lying about my groups!!

    Votes: 21 10.2%
  • Total voters
    205
  • Poll closed .
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With hand guns which is 98% if what I shoot I don't measure the group. I figure if I'm hitting that 8 1/2 x 11 target I'm MOBG so I'm fine.
 
Groups

Why lie when a pic is worth a thousand words? 50 rds at 100'
 

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Humans are not predisposed to being able to rationally self-assess their skills at pretty much anything.

Anyone can go to a range, conduct a range session of their own devising, and think "Hey, I'm pretty good at this whole shooting thing!"

But that doesn't really matter.

Marksmanship is fundamentally about being able to make skillful hits consistently. Shooting one or two good groups now and then is a nice ego boost, but not a true indicator of skill level.
 
I don't lie about them, I may be asked to prove it :)
I'm not a benchrest shooter though, I just want to get to the point where I can shoot as good as the rifle (hopefully 1-2 MOA with handloads) and hit what I'm aiming at. Although a teeny group does make you feel a bit giddy even if it's one good group out of 100 poor ones!
 
When shooting for groups, it doesn't really matter if you hit where you're aiming. Most of the time when I shoot for groups, it's to test a new load. For that, I just want to see if it's consistent. I can adjust the scope as needed if it's off. So yes, it would count. Three inches isn't much anyway. Just 12 clicks of the scope.
 
I don't lie about my groups because quite frankly, I don't measure them. I personally don't think I'm good enough yet where I can pull out a ruler and exclaim that I'm half an inch better than last time or whatever. I can hit where vital organs would be on targets at likely combat distances. To me, that's more important that measuring my groups. Sure, I'd like to be good enough of a bulls-eye shooter where I can talk about tight groups in actual measured sizes, but I'm not there yet.
 
I don't lie about my groups. I truly can put a full magazine out of my 1911 (9 rounds, 8+1) into a 3" circle at 25 yards 9.5/10 when doing slow-fire, super-patient practice. But getting there took a lot of $$$ and a lot of practice. Me and that gun have to have at least 25,000 rounds downrange together. And that's not including the 100's of thousands of .22LR I have put down range and other calibers, too.

I still haven't gotten into long-range rifle shooting, though. I'm guessing there will be some leeway in the lying game there for shooting an AR out to 500 yard and making a .6" group with custom loads! The average I can do with my AR is 6-8" off hand using factory XM193. The best I have done was a 3" group that I must have pulled out of my you-know-where.

Damian
 
Lie? Not really, no.

Ask "what groups can you shoot with that?" or "what groups do you shoot" and you'll get two different honest answers. ;)

But when I get lucky and shoot as nice as my guns will, well, those other targets get shoved under the bed.

I actually do have one on my wall, where I managed to overlap all the rounds of a five-shot group from a 1911 at 15 yards... dunno if I'll manage that again any time soon.
 
Personally, I really don't concern myself much with who might or might not be lying. It's mental energy that could be put to better use elsewhere, like on my own front sight. Besides, there are some superb shots out there, and, ridiculous claims notwithstanding, I'm inclined to give the benefit of doubt.

FWIW, numerous times here and elsewhere, I've posted some actual targets (generally Fun and Postal Matches), and even posted a couple vids on youtube (MrBorland1) doing some trigger control drills, so viewers are welcomed to draw their own conclusions.
 
Justin said:
Marksmanship is fundamentally about being able to make skillful hits consistently. Shooting one or two good groups now and then is a nice ego boost, but not a true indicator of skill level.
Click to expand...

Kinda like my golf game.

Woody
 
I don't talk about it too much anyways. I'm a fair shot out to about 100 yards but have never been obsessed with sub moa groupings. If it will take a deer without me worrying about a wounded animal dragging itself through the woods I'm happy. I'm a fair shot, but certainly nothing to brag about.

I supply info if people ask about certain rifles (usually some old milsurp oddballs)and I'm always honest about that. Why lie?
"Naw this Steyr 95/30 with the sewer pipe bore, recoil that'll put you in the ER and a feed ramp ( or lack therof) that chews up soft point ammo like a beaver gnaws wood gives me 1" groups at 100 yards." Ummm... no, no it doesn't. It patterns like a shotgun at 50 and I'll tell you that.

Deus hit the nail on the head. People seem to want honest opinions on firearms, not shooters. There's no shame in admitting you still have something to learn.
 
Some people say the phrase "all day long", all the time.

I say it once and awhile, only about certain rifle/ammo combinations. And even then, a bad day will screw ya up before ya know it. Usually about the time the second round gets downrange. :rolleyes:
 
Well there was that one time....nah never. I wonder how many people are lying on the poll? :D
 
I`ve read a lot and seem a lot ref: group size and for me, Let me just say,

seeing is believing and the rest I just roll my eyes.
 
What's the fascination of putting all your bullets in about the same hole? Wouldn't it be better to spread them out just a little and create a larger wound cavity? Or multiple wound cavities?

Woody
 
Depends on what you're doing. Not all shooting is defensive practice, and what is considered to be exceptionally good shooting in one discipline is abysmal in another.

For example, look at the differences in what is considered to be excellent shooting for a Bullseye pistol competitor vs. a USPSA shooter.

After all, both are shooting handguns, but the ends to which they aspire are completely different.
 
Since I am not an accuracy freak I do not post or even tell people the groups I shoot very often.

I will usually tell the out and out truth.

If I feel like making myself sound good though I will only tell them my best group and not the average which is usually significantly bigger.
 
Justin said:
Depends on what you're doing. Not all shooting is defensive practice, and what is considered to be exceptionally good shooting in one discipline is abysmal in another.

For example, look at the differences in what is considered to be excellent shooting for a Bullseye pistol competitor vs. a USPSA shooter.

After all, both are shooting handguns, but the ends to which they aspire are completely different.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I know.

Bottom line for me is the self defense angle. It's why I carry. But you're right. Striving for proficiency in competitive shooting can only help in defensive shooting. A "good group" will do the job better than all the bullets in one hole, but good groups come from TRYING to put them all in one hole - at least that's been my experience. :)

Woody
 
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