Lyman 49th manual, small rant.

[Richard Head]

The Lyman manual isn't bad, but the Hornady 9th edition reloading manual is a confusing pos. Their load data is all over the place. They have some dangerously excessive 10mm loads which show low velocity for the pressure they're producing. Their 357 magnum loads are milder than any other manual except for Noslers and their Tokarev loads don't come within 200 fps of the stated velocity. The lyman data is actually pretty good in comparison.

 

[fallout mike]

Dang man, you mean 1 book didn't have every single bit of information in the reloading business? What a frickin rip-off!!

 

[Richard Head]

Honestly these days there's really no need for reloading manuals anymore. Everything you need can be found online from the bullet and powder manufacturers. Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate Arms, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra and just about everyone else selling components has load data available on their websites. On the other hand the first half of lyman manual has some very good information that's invaluable for beginners. If I was just getting into reloading I'd read that before I loaded any ammo. The Lyman cast bullet manual is also excellent.

 

[ReloaderFred]

"Honestly these days there's really no need for reloading manuals anymore. Everything you need can be found online from the bullet and powder manufacturers. Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate Arms, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra and just about everyone else selling components has load data available on their websites."

And then the power went out......................

I learned to load long before there was an internet, or even the thought of one. There were no mentors available, so I bought a loading manual to go along with my used Hollywood press that I bought from one of my college professors and went to work learning on my own the art of reloading. That was in 1963, back when we learned things by doing and experimenting. And no, there weren't any consumer chronographs back then.

Fast forward to today, 52 years later, and I now load 31 different calibers, and thousands of rounds per year. I cast bullets by the thousands. I learned to do all this before computers, simply by using my own initiative to learn all I could about this sport/hobby/obsession called "reloading".

If the power grid goes out, and I believe at some point it will, since it's so vulnerable, the younger generation will be completely lost. No Google, no cellphones, no TV, and left to their own resources. It will be sad to behold, and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime, but if it does...............

Buy printed manuals and keep them forever. As long as the moths don't eat them, they'll always be available, no matter what.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[MEHavey]

We're still able to get a grip on weapons data from 5,000 year old Egyptian media:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharaohs#/media/File:NarmerPalette-CloseUpOfNarmer-ROM.png

Try that with a 5¼” floppy you find in a desk drawer from just 25 years ago.

 

[readyeddy]

Of course I use the right powder listed in the data, but I don't think I've ever perfectly matched load data for bullet, case and primer.

The Lyman manual is helpful because it provides data for both lead and jacketed bullets and even include a graphic of each bullet so you can visually match the bullet type. Working up loads has been safe for me so far.

But here's the thing. Hand loading ammo has its inherent risks. If you're uneasy about deviating from load data, then you will need more than one manual.

 

[Cleveland48]

I mainly use my lyman manual for my revolvers especially with cast bullets. For that I havn't found any better. For rifles I usually stick with nosler, speer, and hornady.

 

[Ironicaintit]

And then the power went out......................

Yeah, no kidding! Who hasnt handloaded by the light of a lantern during a snowstorm after the chores were done and when the power was down?
I have!

 

[Richard Head]

And then the power went out......................

Then I'll go in the garage and get my generator old timing man. Then again it's 2015 and I could always use my smartphone.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Read what I said again, Richard. I'm talking about the power grid, not your house power, and your smart phone would be useless, as would every other electronic gadget in such an event. Nothing is forever that is powered by electricity. Paper is real, and the reality is manuals are necessary for reference, no matter the situation.

I've experienced extended power outages that have lasted for up to a week or more, and it makes one really realize how dependent we've become on the power grid. I'm not a "doomsdayer" or "preppy", but I'm intelligent enough to know that with the power gone for an extended period of time, then we're back in the 1880's very shortly. I would suggest you read the book, "One Second After", for a glimpse at what it would possibly be like if we were hit with an EMP, either manmade or natural.

I was an adult in the 1960's, when the domestic terrorists were bombing electrical transmission lines, buildings and other infrastructure, and later on went into Law Enforcement, where I retired as a manager of a department with over 1,000 employees. I know how vulnerable our whole system of life is, and if you don't realize it now, you will quickly if it ever happens to you. It doesn't take more than a couple of disasters to see how fragile our whole system is. That's reality, not the "cloud" where everything else is stored.

Enough of that small rant, and back on topic. Reloading manuals represent huge amounts of labor and time to produce. Some, like Lee's, just copy the work of others, but the bullet and powder companies expend huge amounts of resources in doing the research necessary to publish the data we now have. Like I said in a previous post, it hasn't always been that way. I've been in the ballistics labs of both Nosler (twice) and Sierra. Both of those companies have made huge investments in testing equipment, range tunnels, pressure barrels, etc., to say nothing of the man hours and trained ballisticians. Extrapolate that out over all the other companies and you may get an idea of the investment they've all made, and you expect them to provide it to you free gratis. Of course, those costs are built into the price of their products somewhat, but I say it again, it's amazing that they produce the manuals they do for the small costs they charge for them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[fallout mike]

Fred, by your grid reference flying right over his head, we see the reality of your assertion. The grid goes down, well I've got my smart phone old timer. Hahaha

 

[ReloaderFred]

Yep, Mike. That's why I suggested Richard read the post again. Reading comprehension can sometimes keep you out of trouble. Kind of like the old example of "may and shall". One is an option, while the other is mandatory.....

Fred

 

[cfullgraf]

Read what I said again, Richard. I'm talking about the power grid, not your house power, and your smart phone would be useless, as would every other electronic gadget in such an event.

A few years ago inclement weather (heavy rains, if I remember correctly but maybe ice storms) in the northwest knocked out the power for the entire region.

Emergency personnel had become reliant on their cell phones for communications and they had zero communications. Amateur radio was the only communication method into and out of the region at the time.

Just one result of the power grid going off line.

Back to the reloading manual issue...

When researching some new loading, I like to spread out my manuals on the desk so that I can peruse all the data without shuffling web sites, cyber pages or even cellulose pages. Heck, I even buy Hodgdon's annual reloading manual each year so that I do not need to consult Hodgdon's web site.

I like having hard copies.

Works for me. May not work for others.

 

[SwaneeSR]

Like many of you I keep a spreadsheet of load records. I have daily use data from online resources. I often print hard copies and put that information in my reloading notebook. I am working on volume 2. There is no substitute for documenting your handloads and trips to the range.

I have many hardcover and paper manuals from Lyman (48th and 49th), Lee, Hornady, Speer, and others. There are differences in the data.

It is annoying to me that Barnes blacks out some of the load data online. They must be trying to get me to purchase the book for $26.

Keep hard copies. I agree it is difficult to pull up data on those 5 1/4" floppies even if your Apple IIe still boots.




BTW - "One Second After" and "Lights Out" are both interesting reads... Ironically, I have them on my iPad Kindle app. The "civilized and developed" countries would not last two weeks before the riots started if the power went out.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If the power grid fails for an extended time that's called GAME OVER

Not having a Lyman 49 on hand will be the least of your worries at that point.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I would suggest you read the book, "One Second Beyond", for a glimpse at what it would possibly be like if we were hit with an EMP, either manmade or natural.

I say that I hate to be nitpicky and point out error....but i think i enjoy it.
The title is, "One Second After", by William R. Forstchen.
It is a decent piece of fiction and probably should be read.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Ironicaintit,

You are correct, it is "One Second After". I believe the co-author was Newt Gingrich, but again I'm relying on memory, which is the second thing to go.........

Thanks for the correction.

Fred

 

[AnselHazen]

By changing you mean individual powders are changing? As in their composition and burn rates? How did you come by the assertion?

Newbies should invest in a chronograph up front. They're invaluable tools for working up loads. To quote John Barsness on this subject:

"If you compare published data for your bullets with your chronograph's results, then never exceed the published maximum or the published velocity, you'll be on safe ground and probably never encounter any traditional pressure signs."

Simply relying on what's published in a manual and traditional pressure "signs" is not a safe approach.

And FWIW, I rarely refer to paper manuals anymore, but when I do it's the Lyman 49th. I've been poring over reloading manuals for as long as I've been able to read and still have some of my Dad's from the late '50's and '60's. The Lyman 49th is far and away the most comprehensive I've ever read.

35W

Somewhere I have read:

That we will never see HP-38 any more.
Names like Benchmark and Varget, Zip, and Universal are ghost powders to me.
Winchester Action Pistol is now Ramshot Silhouette. Older Unique Date should not be used with new Unique.

And along come newer formulations like CFE-223 and CFE Pistol. Or AR-Comp.

The explanation for HP-38 was said to be that making it caused a considerable amount of hazardous waste. So much so that perhaps it just isn't cost effective to make anymore?

I'm just reading and learning, and up until I bought the (2014) Lyman AR Reloading Handbook I was pretty much seeing loads for powders I don't appear to have access to. It feels very much to me like there is change afoot.

 

[Ironicaintit]

No problem, Fred!
Thanks for mentioning the book! Easy electronic communication and convenience are too easily taken for granted.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I don't struggle with length as much as I did earlier on, but I do thing it would make things simpler if every bullet manufacturer listed a length universal starting length.

 

[rondog]

I also have the 49th, and the latest Lee book. I have to agree about the Lyman being kind of thin in regards to recipes. But between it and the Lee I can usually make ammo that will go BANG properly.

I have no chronograph though, wouldn't know how to act if I did. So I can't say I really know what my ammo's doing, although I've made some .44 mags that are real a-holes to shoot. Ended up marking those boxes "rifle only".

 

[Richard Head]

If I lose power for a week reloading ammo will be the least of my concerns Fredricko.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Well Ricardo, if you can't withstand a week without power, then you aren't prepared, are you?

My discussion concerns long term, like catastrophic, damage to the infrastructure that can't be repaired in a week. For long term livability, and the protection of you and your family, reloading may become very important, providing you have the components on hand to even do it.

It's been my practice since the first great ammunition shortage in 1968 to always have at least two years worth of components on hand at any one time. In some areas, I've increased that to four years supply, especially in primers, since without a primer, powder is just fertilizer and bullets are just fishing weights. If you don't think long term, then you'll become a statistic through your own inaction.

I still maintain that reloading manuals are important. I've got them going back to when I first started reloading, and sometimes still consult them. They've been invaluable over the years, and I expect they will continue to do so.

Happy New Year!

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[buddhas]

Great Post and right on. The great thing about reloading as a hobby is the experience and the quest to learn and exreriment.

 

[Richard Head]

Funny that you Reloader Fred with your 5-20,000 posts on every gun forum on the internet would lecture me about my reliance on said internet.