m-38 or m-44?

[Antihero]

So im now in the throes of mosinitis and am looking to get a carbine as i already have a 91/30.

I have read that the m44 isnt as accurate as the m38 because of the bayonet. Is this everyones experience?

Anyway vote and tell me why i should pick one over the other.

 

[Jackal]

M38 hands down. Unless you want to shoot the rifle with a bayonet extended, which you have to do with the M44 since it's made to shoot that way, then the M38 is the one you want. I have had trouble with my M44. When firing corrosive ammo with the bayo out, I forgot to clean the bayo after the session. Yes, even the bayo gets salt from the muzzle blast of Hungarian ammo. Needless to say, I had a very rusty bayo after 4 days. Yup, M38.

 

[DMK]

I wouldn't say either is more or less accurate as a general rule. It depends on the condition and build quality of the individual rifle. Rifles built during the war had variable quality. Some M38s were made pre-war, some M44s were made postwar.

Don't forget that the Russians had to literally pack up quite a few of their factories, load them on box cars, move them out of range of German artillery and aircraft, then unpack everything to resume production and still meet draconian quotas. This did do not do good things to quality control.

I do feel the M38 (and the postwar M91/59 carbine) balances better because it has less weight up front.

 

[Mikee Loxxer]

I prefer the feel of the M-38 stock (the correct M-38 stock without the bayonet cutout for use with the M-44). I dislike the idea of having to worry about extending the bayonet to correct the barrel harmonic (I worry that RSO’s might not like the pig sticker being extended). I also don’t like handling the M-44 as much due to the likelihood of poking my self with the bayonet when it is folded in. That being said I really need to go shoot my M-44 as I have not yet done so. I have owned it for nearly two years now.

 

[Lonestar.45]

M-38. I handled both and the M-38 felt better to me. Not as front heavy and I don't care to have a bayonet permanently attached to a carbine.

Whatever you get, use a bore light and get the best bore out there if it is going to be a shooter. Some look great on the outside, but don't let that fool you, years of corrosive ammo use may have pitted the bore. When I bought mine at the gunshow a while back, I brought my bore light, and looked at about 8 or 9 the guy had laid out on the table, and took the one with the best bore, outside looks aside. Wood/metal was good, but not as good as some of the others with bad bores.

 

[kungfuhippie]

I didn't vote because a "get both" option wasn't there. If you're a lefty the m44 may occasionally poke your right hand, I don't mind though. I got an unused, arsenal wrapped, m44 and it's plenty accurate up to 200 yards. I chose it over a prewar m38 because a new gun will most often shoot better than a well maintained used gun. (same model)

I'll be getting a 91/30 or m38 eventually. But like was said before get the best bore, doesn't matter if it's a m38 or m44. Also if you're gonna shoot it much don't get a wartime manufacture, QC was real low at that time.

My m44 is 1947 made, never saw cosmoline, it sat in it's arsenal wrapper covered in gun/machine oil for years, the oil was coagulating(if that's the word) but cleaned off easily.

Also remember that mosins like different surplus ammo, so buy several types to try out. Hungarian heavy ball is dead-on in my m44, chezh light ball (green steel case, silver tip) chambers and extracts well but isn't nearly as accurate. Russian surplus from the 1980's (copper washed steel case, red sealant, no paint tip) is probably the best, but costs more.

 

[MikeH]

If you got $200 to spend, I'd say buy both.

I picked the M38 myself because I didn't want to mess around with the bayonet.

 

[Grunt]

I voted for the M44 simply because the bayonet while perhaps useless, makes it a little more "cool" in my book. While it is true the bayonet does shift your groups from left to right, mine hasn't had any effect on the accuracy or it's groups, just in their points of impact.

 

[BillinNH]

When I went looking for a Mosin I decided on a 38 because I didn't want all the extra hardware up front, both from a balance point of view and because the 38 doesn't have to extend the bayonet in order to get it to shoot right.

I thought about a 91/30 but frankly I don't care for guns with barrels over 24". Too ungainly.

I see Centerfire Systems is selling some Mosins that have been cut down to 25". Anybody know anything about them? They have no collector value since they have been sporterized.

Bill

 

[sefus]

I bought a '44, took the bayo off, and it shoots perfectly. Can always put the bayo on if I want to, but one less option on a 38.

-Sefus

 

[WarMachine]

Maybe it's just here locally, but the M44's I have seen have been in better condition than the M38's. I recently picked up an Ishevsk made in 1948 that literally looked NIB.

 

[Antihero]

Ok who voted for option 3???


I have found 2 m44s and one m38 around my area that are in pretty good shape and have good bores all around, but im leaning towards the m-38 mostly because i dont feel a pressing need to charge Nazis with a bayonet.

Also if you're gonna shoot it much don't get a wartime manufacture, QC was real low at that time.

My 91/30 is a 1942 and it shoots 1.5" groups so im not gonna discount any Mosin that has a nice bore.

 

[Cosmoline]

The whole bayonet issue is the subject of an enormous amount of myth and misinformation. The fact is, the mint condition M-44's are among the most accurate Mosins. I've seen some Poles that give MOA groups and they regularly win competitions. As a general matter, M-38's will be *less* accurate on average than M-44's, simply because they've seen more war. I've never seen any convincing evidence that the bayonet lug itself causes any accuracy problems with the M-44. Or for that matter that there's some special harmonic convergence that happens when you extend the bayo. The only problem I've confirmed is if you fold the bayonet on some M-44's it impinges the stock into the barrel.

Both are fine carbines. The M-44 is about a pound and a half heavier and weighted more towards the barrel, but other than that they're very similar.

 

[sefus]

I'll add rumor to that rumor that the 44's do tend to be in a little better condition than the 38's. And that weight of the M44 just helps to keep your muzzle down. Nobody is going to be humping 30 klicks with full pack carrying a Mosin Nagant anymore so the weight arguement comes down to being a sissy

-Sefus

 

[Cosmoline]

Actually I've been hiking and biking a lot with Mosins. The extra weight of the M-44 is somewhat of a drawback. I actually prefer the 91/30 because it's longer, thinner and balances better.

 

[Kymasabe]

I've had close to a dozen Mosins and my M38 was decent, rearsenaled, OK shooter, nothing to look at. I was lucky enough to find an unissued 1948 M44 that looked like brand new, sharp lands, mirror bright bore. I never shot surplus ammo thru it, just new production, and I removed the bayo by removing the one screw that holds it on, left the mount on the gun, looked a little goofy but that gun shot perfectly, was super accurate, no sight adjustments needed at all!

Don't buy the story that M44's aren't as accurate as M38's.

 

[ajax]

I personally own a M-44. I would have prefered the M-38 ,but I was unable to find one so I compromised. I cut the bayonet off and now own the bubba'ed M-38.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Cosmoline,

I'm glad you mentioned the whole "shooting w/ bayo extended" as a myth. I'm looking at the same rifles and I was concerned about that. I thought it sounded a little like crap myself. I mean, then, logically, wouldn't SKS rifles have to be shot with bayonets extended too? I mean a Soviet rifle with such tight tolerances? Please...

 

[Cosmoline]

In my experiences with Mosins, the USSR arsenals never sighted anything in properly, with or without the bayo extended. They made a vague guess and drew a line I will usually break the rifle down, clean it up, shim it if needed and put on a better trigger from the parts box. I then start fresh when it comes to sighting in, gearing it to whatever ammo that mosin seems to prefer.

Finns are another matter. If I can't get one to shoot well I assume I'm using the wrong load for it before resorting to the brass hammer.

Also, you know you don't have to cut the bayonet lug off. It's a waste of a hack saw. You can either pop the bayonet off, which takes about five seconds, or you can remove the lug assembly and fix a scout scope on it.

 

[wilson]

Im going to vote m44 because thats what i have. I would like to have a nice m38 though.

 

[EdLaver]

Funny I keep hearing about the M44 not being accurate unless the bayo is extended but in my personal experience that has never been an issue. I am getting 3" to 4" consistently out to the 150 yard mark without the bayo extended with iron sights, thats pretty damn good. Oh yeah, and Mosins do look better with the shorter barrel and bayo .

 

[mrmeval]

+1 for Interordinance M44s

I ordered two from them and they are pristine. I really don't think these have been fired since being made. Every normal wear surface is blued a deed blue and none of it's worn off. I got the laminated stocks and the look unused.

I've not had either of these to the range. The better one is a '45 the other that is slightly 'off' is a '48. The stock on the '48 looks like a 'dip and go' one, it will probably be the one I shoot.

 

[Essex County]

I voted M38, But....

We have a couple of close friends of 35 years that visit five or six times a year. They are rather liberal and politicaly correct. My wife and I are not. By mutual agreement years ago we don't discuss politics or social issues. When we know the are coming for the weekend I open the safe and take out two rifles and stack them in the corner of the dining room. One is a M44 with bayonet extended and the other is a 16" A2 in all it's tactical splendor. Sometimes the sweetest pleasures in life can be very simple...Essex

 

[Cosmoline]

 

[wnycollector]

Cosmoline, I agree my 91/30 feels better (and is much more accurate!) to me...but my m38 is more fun to shoot with heavy ball at dusk