M&P .40 kaboom update

[PlusP]

Like putting Bondo over the rust it may look OK but it's not....

 

[M1key]

The patch job only fixed it cosmetically, not structurally. I agree with the Darwin Award comment. The owner also screwed himself out of any chance to get S&W to replace the frame.

M

 

[Claude Clay]

he does auto body so he should be familiar with accidents where the frame has been damaged in ways that render it inappropriate, actually unsafe to repair.

i'm another hoping never to be at the range when he is -- even without that gun in hand
his is a mindset not firmly grounded.

OTOH...fix it as a test of your abilities, as a something-to-do; test it and than discard it.
i'm good with that

 

[Defc0n]

I'm with most everyone else on this one, would not want to be next to the guy when he is shooting. Possibly putting other peoples lives at risk if something blows out (again) and sends some shrapnel into the guy next to you just isn't worth it.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I bet your friend's health insurance deductible is more than the cost of a new gun.


Every time I think I've seen the most outrageous lengths a guy will go through to save some money, someone else comes along to top it. Like this.

 

[TroyUT]

I'm no engineer by any means but assuming this gun never experiences a catastrophic failure again (caused by a double charged round or what have you) how would this gun be a danger to bystanders? I'm trying to picture in my mind the process of a gun firing a cartridge and the various stresses placed on the various components. I just don't see this gun exploding ,for lack of a better word, unless it's an unsafe powder charge or brass case that would do the same in any gun (albeit he may have ruined the protection a new frame would have offered in those scenarios). Am I missing something here?

 

[Potatohead]

Am I missing something here

No, looks like you nailed it:

(albeit he may have ruined the protection a new frame would have offered in those scenarios)

 

[sexybeast]

TroyUT, you are quite correct. On forums like this you get quite a few "experts" that are a bit dramatic. The gun would not blow up. His hand would get hurt form the pressure, the blast would scare the crap out of him. The magazine usually blows out along with the baseplate, with all of the rounds going all over the place. I've seen quite a few 1911's, four glocks, and two revolvers blow up. The revolver would be the most dangerous to bystanders!
Plastic guns in this regard are great. They flex and the plastic just "splits" in one of more places [if it breaks at all]! Of the four glocks I have seen double charges with, only one of them broke the frame, none of them spread out fragments.
10.4gr of titegroup will destroy a 1911, almost nothing will be salvageable, not even the magazine! Well maybe he grips and a few small parts.

 

[Potatohead]

SB,
No offense intended, nor do I claim to be any kind of expert whatsoever but I think sometimes experienced reloaders keep it dramatic to outline the fact that this can be a dangerous hobby and it's best not to underestimate the potential dangers. I don't think it's a bad thing to keep the dangers at the forefront of everyone's mind, especially the new guys like myself. The talk behind something that causes the baseplate to blow off and hurting my hand is serious enough to not be thrown into the grain of salt category I think.

I have noticed some of the drama also and I kind of see what you are saying but I seriously would not want to shoot that gun or be around it when someone else did, would you?

 

[sexybeast]

Like sucking on your thumb will make it fall off?
Blowing things way out of proportion doesn't help anyone. Like some of our earlier threads about starting below starting loads "OMG, you're going to get a SQUIB"!!!! Not true!
Keep it real. And if you don't know, then don't claim to know. And please don't read speculation and repeat it as fact.

 

[Potatohead]

I dont know if sucking your thumb makes it fall off but I do know their are real dangers that go along with to much powder, not enough powder, weak cases, etc.


I know to watch for holes on the paper if Im working with a really light load, but what if a new fellow, who maybe reads more online than in manuals doesn't? Or maybe he's just not experienced enough to know that yet? Maybe you knew everything from the get go but not all of us do. Sorry for off topic, Im out.

 

[marchboom]

Originally posted by WARHWKBB,
"When the next KB strikes, anyone to the right is going to be hit with lethal shrapnel."

And the shooter ("master gunsmith"?) will be liable to a HUGE lawsuit.

Destroy that gun or make it a display piece over the mantel.

 

[silicosys4]

Like sucking on your thumb will make it fall off?
Blowing things way out of proportion doesn't help anyone. Like some of our earlier threads about starting below starting loads "OMG, you're going to get a SQUIB"!!!! Not true!
Keep it real. And if you don't know, then don't claim to know. And please don't read speculation and repeat it as fact.

Sorry, but we aren't just all worry-me-nancy's wringing our hands.
That's a safety issue. Pretty sure the factory wouldn't sign off on that as safe to shoot.

 

[LiveLife]

Pretty sure the factory wouldn't sign off on that as safe to shoot.

The mechanic already contacted S&W

When he called SW they said they wouldn't send out a replacement frame and that he should just get a new gun.

Obviously S&W deemed the damage was not covered under the warranty and declined frame replacement.

I agree with S&W that the mechanic should get a new gun as the glued together pistol is another accident waiting to happen. If the mechanic cannot see that point and keeps on shooting the repaired pistol, I think there's another issue not appropriate for THR.

 

[cerberus65]

I've seen quite a few 1911's, four glocks, and two revolvers blow up.

Statistically, you are waaay above average for events like that. I've recently been reading Elmer Keith and I don't think he blew up that many guns.

Are those guns you've personally blown up?

Very curious...

 

[788Ham]

"The point of this thread was to entertain ya'll" , whats so entertaining about blowing your pistol up, or possibly blowing your hand off? I read your previous postings, then this one, I truly fail to see the entertainment you're supposedly providing all of ya'll ! If you want to continue to wreak havoc with your monies, and asinine reloading ventures, have at it, I fail to see your humor!

 

[sexybeast]

Statistically, you are waaay above average for events like that. I've recently been reading Elmer Keith and I don't think he blew up that many guns.

Are those guns you've personally blown up?

Very curious

d
I haven't blown any up so far! But I know very good shooters and reloaders who have.
I was a range officer for ten years. With rifle I have seen a guy blow up his hand trying to double feed a bolt action. He lost some fingers. And I was present when a Grandfather was with his grandson and he blew off part of his pinky while shooting a Derringer. i also shoot in competitons every week, four in the past two weeks alone. Sometimes I run the line.
I've fixed many a gun on the firing line, got them unjammed, and seen my share of double charges.
The worse thing was having a loaded or unloaded gun pointed at me on a regular basis when a FTF, or if it was slightly out of battery and they turn with the gun. Some pistols i know a lot about. Glocks and their clones are one of them. Much more survivable design than a 1911 or revolver with mistakes. Probably my attitude shows. That plastic is very strong and flexible. After the repair if he had no more cracks I probably still would not have shot it on a regular basis. i kow a few shooters that had their glock frames repaired/replaced by glock. Its what I would have done. But I would not have included him in "the Darwin" awards.
I don't think I over react or am a drama queen and feel the need to scream out unrealistic warnings. Or simply repeat what others have written without ANY first hand accounts.
You are much more likly to get shot or get fragments from the guy sitting next to you shooting at the range than to get fragments from a gun with a double charge. Revolvers are the exception when that cylinder blows apart.
Thanks for the question and I hope this answers your curiosity.

 

[0to60]

When the next KB strikes, anyone to the right is going to be hit with lethal shrapnel.

Keep in mind, the original KB happened to a fully intact, like new condition frame. If you think he shouldn't have gone ahead with the repair and simply replaced the gun, he'd be in the exact same position he was when the original KB went off. In other words, for him at least, having a new frame is no proof against KB's.

I think the REAL fear here, if you want one, would be "what is the guy in the lane next to me shooting?" I suppose this could be a concern anytime you go to the range and the guy next to you is shooting reloads.

 

[flashhole]

You make a good point about "the guy in the lane next to me shooting". I've walked away from the guy shooting next to me on a few occasions just because I thought he was doing something stupid that might get someone hurt. Fortunately those are rare occurrences. The President of our local shooting association has refused people membership renewal for the same reasons. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[Bovice]

I'll tell you how it'll act in stress. It'll blow out a confetti of metal and plastic.

This was a bad idea. Reloading in itself is not dangerous if proper procedure is followed. As good as it looks on the outside though, that's not safe to shoot anything through it; factory or reload.

 

[poco loco]

I blew up an old German double action 38 using what was supposed to be dads reloads...a triple charge of Bullseye does ugly ugly things to a cylinder and topstrap, even broke the frame bottom at the grip Just an ugly kaboom. Luckily I had not a scratch as I was leaned out over the bench resting for the 50 meter chickens....I found everything but the top half of the cylinder, might be orbiting, not sure.

The second kaboom wasn't mine I just bought the gun cheap after, a Llama Max 1 with an obvious squib, then second shot blew the top out of the bbl, but didn't seem to effect anything else. I replaced the bbl, springs, rod and bbl bushing, measured the frame and slide carefully and it was spec but had a minor tight spot in cycling...after hand cycling well oiled about a 1000 times it's like glass and shoots almost as nice as my Springer......

Not every kaboom is the end of the pistol but I've gotta say that I wouldn't ever expect a frame repair on a polymer pistol to hold period. Not even in a low pressure round like the 45acp, too much inertial energy slamming back and forth not counting side stress.

 

[LiveLife]

Not every kaboom is the end of the pistol but I've gotta say that I wouldn't ever expect a frame repair on a polymer pistol to hold period. Not even in a low pressure round like the 45acp, too much inertial energy slamming back and forth not counting side stress.

And the pistol in question is a higher pressure 40S&W M&P40.

I agree with S&W that the mechanic should get a new gun as the glued together pistol is another accident waiting to happen. If the mechanic cannot see that point and keeps on shooting the repaired pistol, I think there's another issue not appropriate for THR.

I have a feeling the mechanic won't see the point we are all trying to make since he was the cause of the KaBoom in the first place.

Keep in mind, the original KB happened to a fully intact, like new condition frame. If you think he shouldn't have gone ahead with the repair and simply replaced the gun, he'd be in the exact same position he was when the original KB went off. In other words, for him at least, having a new frame is no proof against KB's.

No comment.

 

[Wayne_E]

I also hope he never sells that gun. At least without full disclosure.

 

[sexybeast]

TroyUT wrote:

I'm no engineer by any means but assuming this gun never experiences a catastrophic failure again (caused by a double charged round or what have you) how would this gun be a danger to bystanders? I'm trying to picture in my mind the process of a gun firing a cartridge and the various stresses placed on the various components. I just don't see this gun exploding ,for lack of a better word, unless it's an unsafe powder charge or brass case that would do the same in any gun (albeit he may have ruined the protection a new frame would have offered in those scenarios). Am I missing something here

Actually good thinking here and a good question.

My response on some postings:

TroyUT, you are quite correct. On forums like this you get quite a few "experts" that are a bit dramatic.

Then,,,,,:

I'll tell you how it'll act in stress. It'll blow out a confetti of metal and plastic.

And there you go. This thread has been great for entertainment value alone.

 

[horsemen61]

I want NO part of a home fixed frame job on any gun.