M1 accuracy?

[DWH]

I had the opportunity to take a few friends out to the Mojave desert to do some shooting over Easter. We were mostly shooting orange clays. We set out some clays at a variety of distances between 50 and 150 yards/paces. We were all doing ok shooting off hand and having fun. After taking a lunch break, we resumed. But this time we placed some clays out about what we estimated by our golf yard paces to be about 230-250 yards or so into a dry lake bed onto two rubble hills. The clays were visible, but not real easy to see. We were resting the rifle on my range bag and sitting in a chair. After a little practice, I got to where I could solidly bust about one clay each clip, with the other rounds hitting very near.

I won our little shooting match when I broke two clays solidly in one clip of 8 rounds. My buddies were doing well to maybe get one clay every 2-3 clips, and that was not happening all the time. We had a blast and went through almost 2 whole spam cans that afternoon!

Anyway, that is the farthest distance I've ever shot my M1. Is hitting clays at 230-250 yards resting on a range bag decent shooting? I was real happy with it! I'm just wondering if the rest of you folks who regularly shoot these fantastic rifles would be satisfied with this level of accuracy!

 

[jpwilly]

I'd say yes the rifle shoots good. Stock M1's are not Match Rifles. My M1 with new Wilson Arms bbl will shot 1-2" groups at 100yrds - good for an M1. Here's a 200 yrd group...this was shot prior to fixing a wobbly front sight / gas cylinder and adding a NM front sight (just did that tonight)

 

[homeka45]

Nice laminated stock JPWilly, where'd you get it from and if you don't mind what did it set you back.

 

[Titan6]

I can hit an Etype target at 300 meters with no issues with my Field Grade and no modifications. Never tried to hit anything smaller or farther away with it. I am sure it could do more if I tweaked it, but for me that is not the point.

 

[P-32]

Find a match to go shoot and you will see just how good your M-1 is shooting at known distance.

 

[P-32]

A pic of my match tuned M-1 in 308

 

[Swampy]

DWH,

It's hard to give a good estimate of the accuracy of your particular rifle. You did not really give a good accounting of what it's capable of.

First off.... what's the muzzle, bore and throat like??? Gauge readings?? Also, what ammo were you using???

To do a decent group test of your rifle you need to either bench it at 100 yards or go prone-sling with it. Shoot 8 shot groups at a target with a 6 MOA black bull. This is the standard for military iron sighted rifles. The SR-1 target is what's normally used. This will give you a much more consistent sight picture than will a small orange clay bird and allow a much better determination of what your rifle is capable of.

Re "normal" accuracy from an M1: The M1 rifle, as new from the factory, was required by USGI arsenal spec to fire 8 shots of USGI M2 ball into 4.0 MOA or less @ 100 yards. If the rifle could not do this it was downchecked and sent to the armorers for inspection/repair. If the unit armorers could not rectify the issues it was sent back to arsenal for replacement.

Many "original" USGI M1's today will still meet this accuracy spec. Some, due to worn muzzle, loose buttstock, or other issues may not. With 8 shots of M2 @ 100 yards most will do 3 to 4 MOA, some small number will do 2 to 3 MOA. Very few will do better than 2 MOA.

You can improve this by either having the M1 tightened up with new or newer barrel, new tight buttstock and by shooting good reloads with match bullets.

My Match Grade M1's, which have new commercial barrels (Both in .308), new commercial wood, full bedding, match trigger, match sights and unitized front ends.... shooting my match handloads will do 1 to 1-1/2 MOA. It's not easy to better that with an M1.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
MO state 2007 NRA 600 yard Service Rifle Champion (With an M1)

 

[Slamfire]

The as issued M1 Garand was not target grade accuracy. The as issued late 50's NM Garands were acceptable if they shot 3.5 MOA. That is not modern day target grade accuracy. The rifle was first and foremost a battle rifle, and it excelled at that job.

Regardless of the rifle accuracy, the human element is still the greatest obsticle to on paper accuracy. Just this weekend my Club had a 200 yard CMP style John Garand Match. Incidentally, we shot on the 5V target.

I did not take pictures of any of the targets, but we had guys that shot BINGO on several of their positions. To shoot a Bingo you must shoot A "V", a "5", a "4", a "3", and get a miss!

These are above average shooters shooting rack grade rifles with Greek Ball. If they had their favorite match AR's, the worst most would have done was to shoot a "4".

I don't remember the score of the Carbine shooter. I don't know if he hit a "V" at all, and it is likely that he got few 5's. Stock carbines are even more inaccurate than stock Garands.

 

[10X]

Although the M1 was designed as a combat rifle, it is capable of terrific accuracy. From my high power days shooting the M1, my experience with accuracy has been as follows:

With a good GI barrel, tight stock fit and USGI ammo the rifle likes, you should see around 4"-6" 10 round groups at 100 yards.

With glass bedding it should be under 3"

Match reloads should take that under 2"

With match sights 1"-2"

 

[Swampy]

With a good GI barrel, tight stock fit and USGI ammo the rifle likes, you should see around 4"-6" 10 round groups at 100 yards.

Actually.... that's pretty bad.

I own and have fired DOZENS of M1's in the last 9 years, all CMP rifles. I have seen only one that would not do better than 4" @ 100 yards with M2 ball (Which is-was USGI arsenal acceptance spec.) from slung up prone position (I don't shoot from a bench.).

Barrels range all the way from Rack Grade spec to like new.

Strangely enough, the one that would NOT shoot had a practically new barrel, gaugeing 1 on both ends. Other issues at work here, but have not had time to find them as yet.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
MO state 2007 NRA 600 yard Service Rifle Champion (With an M1)

 

[nathan]

On my own accord, I achieved 2.5 inch groups , 3 shots at 100 yds on sandbag. It was using S Korean PS 74. I was very satisfied with that . Of course, its not a 10 rd group. Rifle in use is HRA 54 dated barrel, MW 1. The stock is super tight. The front sight has some minute wiggle.

 

[Bwana John]

Ummm... Ive shot many clays off banks and you dont have to hit them to break them, just get close enough to kick up rocks that break them. I can break clays faster by aiming under them than aiming at them.

In answer to your question I would be very happy with a 3MOA service grade M1.

The front sight has some minute wiggle

Pull the gas block off, put a ball bearing on each of the 3 spline cuts on the barrel about where the front sight is and wack it with a hammer. Tightens that front sight wiggle right up.

 

[pdh]

Here's another....pic of my accurized M1 in .308 with a group fired at 200yds...

I am pretty proud of it....

 

[Funderb]

people are accurate,
the firearm is precise.

 

[M2 Carbine]

My issue M1 in 1956 (USMC) was a new International Harvester.
I was a kid with not much firearms experience but easily shot Expert with that M1.
Our course of fire was 200 yards standing, using a 10 inch bullseye to 500 yards prone, using (as I recall) a 20 inch bull.

500 yards was my favorite, never missed.

At that time all the USMC used was armor piercing (black tip) and tracer.

I thought it was strange shooting paper targets with armor piercing bullets.


Now I've got two Springfield M1's.
My second one is a CMP Danish with the equivalent of a Match barrel.

Last time I had the Danish M1 out a friend's teenage boy and I were shooting pieces of clay pigeons at 300 yards.
It took me 8 rounds to hit my target but the boy hit three with one clip.
Oh, to have those young eyes again.

 

[Bwana John]

people are accurate,
the firearm is precise.

Accuracy is hitting the intended target, anywhere. An accurate deer rifle kills deer if aimed correctly, it dosent have to be MOA.

Precision is hitting the same spot, time after time. A very percise rifle might make small groups and not be accurate if it dosent hit where it is aimed (not sighted in correctly).

 

[Funderb]

The point is that accuracy can be corrected easily, and usually lies with the shooter, but can be attributed to crooked sights.
but precision repair requires major overhaul.
99% of the time, the accuracy problem is a fault of the shooter.

 

[Funderb]

hahaha nice USA

 

[DWH]

>>DWH,

It's hard to give a good estimate of the accuracy of your particular rifle. You did not really give a good accounting of what it's capable of.

First off.... what's the muzzle, bore and throat like??? Gauge readings?? Also, what ammo were you using??? >>

Swampy,

When I purchased the rifle, the throat measured about 3, and the muzzle was about 2.5 I was told by the seller. I have shot 3 spam cans of CMP Greek HXP ammo through this rifle. Most, if not all, ranges here in Southern PRK do not allow steel/magnet attracting ammo because of fire problems. So it is hard to get an accurate target shot at to get a good read on the rifle's/user's accuracy. I've got really bad ( I'm talking shoulder replacement time) arthritis in my shoulders and can't even imagine shooting from a prone position!

Forgive my poor accounting, as I'm still learning all this "m1" stuff.

I'm just a newbie who was wondering if I suck, or if I'm doing alright. I have no idea what targets to get, or (even if I had some) how to find out if I had done well or not. We were just having fun with some clays.

So, I recon, my next question would be If I could get to a range, and shoot at 100 yds, what size target should I shoot at to get some results to measure, and how would I read the results once I've put 8 rounds through it?

Thanx for all the responses folks!

I love shooting this rifle!

 

[Swampy]

So, I recon, my next question would be If I could get to a range, and shoot at 100 yds, what size target should I shoot at to get some results to measure, and how would I read the results once I've put 8 rounds through it?

DWH,

As I said above, you need a 100 yard target with a 6 MOA black. The SR-1 is the standard NRA-CMP target for 100 yards and the M1 rifle. This gives the best relationship between the width of the front post and the bull, allowing the most precise alignment.

After 8 shots measure the distance between the furthest two holes to arrive at group size. Do this center to center, or furthest edge to furthest edge, then subtract one bullet diameter. After doing this several times you can derive an average capability of you, your rifle, and the ammo you are using.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
MO state 2007 NRA 600 yard Service Rifle Champion (With an M1)

 

[johnnyonthespot]

fantastic information...

so how many clicks up from the bottom to get on the paper at 100 yds is it again?

I need to know...

inquiring minds need to know.

 

[Swampy]

so how many clicks up from the bottom to get on the paper at 100 yds is it again?

8 to 12 covers 90% of M1's.

Swampy

Garands forever

 

[DWH]

Swampy,
Thank you for your help and guidance! It is appreciated!