Member Needing Guidance On My Next Long Range Rifle

[JW74]

Hi everyone,

I am looking to get back into some recreational bench rest/long range shooting. A little about myself, I am an avid sporting clays shooter and compete nationally at the Master Class level and really enjoy the clays game! I did a little bench rest shooting when I was younger with a rem 700 varmint riffle in 7mm-08. With hand loads it was a tack driver if I did my part. I didn't shoot much over 300 yards as that was as far as I could go at my local range. Lately I have wanted to start shooting riffles again to take a break from shooting clays from time to time.

My goal it to have a set up that is good out to 1000 yards and possibly one day make a mile shot, but that is a longer term goal for down the road. I have narrowed my riffle search to two riffles that are affordable to me. I am thinking of a 300 WSM as it is non belted and has a large bullet selection for re-loading. The 7mm WSM is also on the list. The two riffles I am looking at that are in my price range are:

1) Savage 111 Long Range Hunter

2) Sako A7 Long-Range Hunter - exclusive to Cabela's

I was hoping the gang here could give some pros and cons for each or comment on which is clearly the better riffle in terms of accuracy ect. I like the muzzle brake option and trigger on the Savage. I think with the 300 WSM the muzzle brake would be good for higher volume shooting. Also like the adjustable comb on the Savage. I feel like the stock is better on the Sako though and the barrel appears to be heavier but has no muzzle brake. As for an optic, I have been looking at the Vortex Viper PST riffle scope.

Thanks for any feedback as it is greatly appreciated.
Joe

 

[dubbleA]

Not that the 7mm or 300WSM are bad cartridges but you mention shooting out to 1000yds. No sense burning a bunch of powder which will reduce barrel life with them, not to mention dealing with more recoil. If you plan on LR hunting with the rifle then I would opt for them as the extra power is a good thing.

The 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmore, 6.5x47 Lapua will get you there. The 6.5 Creedmore is available in the Savage I believe. Not a huge Savage fan but it's platform will give you much better aftermarket parts as well as simple barrel/caliber swaps.

A fast twisted 243 Win is another mild cartridge that will get you to 1000yds but isn't available in a factory rifle that I know of.

Just my thoughts......

 

[ms6852]

Don't for get the 30-06. It will easily get you to 1200 yds using 208 gr AMAX bullets. But if its a mile you are talking 300 winchester will get you there as long as your scope has a minimum of 100 MOA elevataion and your base for your scope has a 20 moa or 30 moa built to it, you might need 40 moa. I believe at 1 mile the bullet will drop approximately 140 feet in one mile and you would need about 85 moa adjustment. Don't have my ballistics chart or app with me so I;m guestimating.

Using a 338 will get you to one mile easily.

 

[kitsapshooter]

just had the discussion with a nationally ranked 1000-1200 yard shooter. He was showing off his new stock on his newly rebuilt rifle.

243 caliber, he suggest the savage action (650), barrel (350), stock approx 400.00, trigger group $250.00, optics $1400-1600
that is the cheap end of the spectrum.

 

[Manny]

I think I'd look at a Savage like this:

http://www.shotgunnews.com/2013/02/10/flat-shooter-savage-arms-model-12-long-range-precision-review/

 

[jehu]

If it's a mile you seek get a Sako TRG 338 Lapua and stick a Nightforce high power scope on it. I know it's alot of money but you can spend it now or spend it later!:banghead:

 

[hseII]

I did a lot of searching, reading, and spent a lot of $ to gather together what I thought I wanted.

My advice,
Find a reputable builder, save your $, time, and patience.

This is what I will do next time except LH 300WM
http://www.gaprecision.net/mil-spec-rifles/m40a5.html

I have not handled these rifles, but have heard good things about them:

http://www.redhawkrifles.com/products/rifles

 

[dubbleA]

Wow the OP states he is on a Savage/Vortex combo budget.
Then he gets a suggestion for a $3000 rifle and a $2000 scope and then a $4500 rifle without optics!

What's next, a Accuracy International AX with a Schmidt and Bender?:banghead:

Sometimes you just have to crawl before you can walk......

 

[JW74]

Today I went into one of my local gun shops and they had a Savage 10FPSR .308 on the shelf for $599. It looks like a solid gun and I have read that it is very accurate out of the box. I am considering this as it is cheaper than the others and a good caliber for target shooting. Has anyone here has any experience with the Savage 10FPSR?

 

[JW74]

Thanks a lot for the responses everyone! They are helping a lot and yet leading me to more questions, haha. As with the recommendations here I am leaning towards a Savage but likely away from a magnum cartridge for now. In my searching through the gun shops and from help I have received here and other forums online I am thinking I may end up starting out with a 308 or the 6.5 Creedmoor. I like the idea of the 308 for all of the loading data available and I really like the 6.5 for its bullet selection and ballistic attributes. An old gunsmith I knew growing up swore by his sporterized 6.5x55 Swedish and I an see why.

The Savage 10FPSR .308 I saw earlier today had a decent stock and heavy barrel. The Savage 111 LRH I am looking at has a thinner barrel for sure but also comes with an adjustable cheek piece and muzzle break. Price in about $200 more. My question is will I loose much accuracy with the thinner 26" barrel on the Savage 111 LRH over that of the Savage 10FPSR?

Also, I now have the Savage model 12 LRP in 6.5 on my radar!

Thanks,
Joe

 

[bullzeye8]

The thinner barrel doesn't make the gun less accurate. However it heats up faster and a hot barrel can lead to decreased accuracy. So it doesn't make it less accurate having a thinner barrel you just can't shoot as fast.

 

[AABEN]

I had a Mod 12 in 243 and it shoot 1/2 at 200 yd and I am 74 years old. It is one very very good gun and shoot! If I was still doing a lot of shooting I would had keep it. Replaced it with a mod 11 thumb hole stock in 243 SAVAGE

 

[jehu]

Wow the OP states he is on a Savage/Vortex combo budget.
Then he gets a suggestion for a $3000 rifle and a $2000 scope and then a $4500 rifle without optics!

What's next, a Accuracy International AX with a Schmidt and Bender?:banghead:

Sometimes you just have to crawl before you can walk......

We are only trying to save the OP from a money wasting evolution to what is enevitable if you want to accomblish reasonably accurate shooting at over 1000yrds let alone a mile!!

 

[vaupet]

I would not take a hunting rifle unless I wanted to hunt, because
a) it is less stable (lighter) for range shooting a heavy rifle is better
b) barrel heats up real fast (5 to 6 shots may do that) so you can(t see your target animore because of hot air over the barrel.

Also, watch out for Police sniper Rifles: they to are not designed with 30 shots in less than 30 minutes in mind.

Maybe you could look at the Tikka T3 sporter in 6,5x55 with the 24" barrel
great value IMHO
http://www.tikka.fi/t3models.php?sporter

To ad to the discussion:I have an TPG 1 in 6,5x55 with Schmidt & bender PM II 5-25x56, which has set me back 7K €, but I saved for it and bought in the first place what I would have ended up with, but that is just a personal choice

 

[Georgiaboy61]

JW74,

Just to throw in my two cents worth of experience on this subject, you could do a lot worse than own a Savage 110FCP HSP .338 Lapua Magnum. Paired with a quality optic and carefully-selected match-grade loads, this set-up will take you well past the 1,500 meter mark. Savage makes a very nice rifle for the money - their products are a good value and often out-perform rifles costing 2-3x as much. Of course, if you have the bucks, you can't go wrong with a Sako TRG or - if you really want to go all-out - an Accuracy International or the like.

I own both a Nightforce NSX 6-20 scope and a Millett LRS. The former is a very good scope, without question - but very expensive. The Millett, which costs only a fourth as much as the NF, has more minutes of angle elevation on adjustment (140 moa) for those ER shots, and it is rugged and has surprisingly good glass. I have tested it, and it also tracks extremely accurately on a per-click basis of adjustment. In other words, 1 click does indeed move your elevation +/- 1/4 moa, 0.1 mil or whatever. This is extremely important in a long-distance rifle - that the scope tracks accurately. It is also illuminated, and unlike the NF - the degree of brightness can be selected. Finally, the NSX goes up to 20x magnification, whereas the Millett goes up to 25x. A lot of value for the money - and cheap enough in terms of price to allow you to enjoy your new rifle while you save up for that high-end optic.

One final thought: factory match-grade 338 LM ammunition costs roughly $4/shot. Almost all of the ELR shooters I know load their own ammo - both to save money and perhaps more-importantly, to attain superior accuracy by tailoring their loads to their individual firearms. Match-grade factory ammunition is excellent, even superb, these days - but the manufacturers cannot custom-tailor the load to your rifle specifically - only you (or a skilled technician) can do that. Ideally, if you want to be able to hit targets at 1000+ meters/yards, you will need ammunition capable of shooting 1 moa (minutes of angle) or better, i.e. inside 1 inch at 100 yards, inside 10 inches at 1000 yards. The best competitive marksmen and tactical shooters have ammunition accurate-enough to shoot 0.5 moa or better.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml remington check these
http://www.snipercountry.com/inreviews/rem_m700_stainlessspecial5rmilspec.asp
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/c-836-700ss-5r-mil-spec.aspx

now,if you plan to do a lot of shooting,find your dream rifle,break it in,thououghly clean the bore,and send it to losok custom arms for meloniting.this will drastically increase bore life.

 

[amusthj]

I would also echo some above comments regarding excessive recoil and powder usage.

My long-range experience started with a 7mmRM. Six months into it I had an empty wallet and a new bad habit (flinching).

My 6.5x47 Lapua was the best decision I made. It is much, much more pleasant shooting experience. It has served me well out to the 1200 meters I have been fortunate enough to shoot.

I think you are on the right track when considering any of the 6.5mm cartridge choices out there today. A friend of mine shoots a 6.5x55 Swede. He pushes a 140g Berger at 2950. It does everything he needs very well.

 

[MtnCreek]

I started with 308w's. Then I decided I needed something that would do better at longer ranges, so I started shooting a 300wm. A couple years later and now I'm shooting a 6.5 creedmoor. That's been my evolution.

 

[JW74]

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone! It was really helpful. I settled on a riffle and purchased the Savage model 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. For an optic I went with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. I'm really happy with the setup and can't wait to take it out and enjoy it. The more I learned about the 6.5 Creedmoor the more I realized it was right up my ally for what I was looking to do with my riffle. I enjoy hand loading and am looking forward to working up some loads for it this summer.

 

[dubbleA]

Happy to hear some of the info was helpful to you!

Now go burn some powder.

 

[Cee Zee]

I settled on a riffle and purchased the Savage model 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. For an optic I went with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50.

An excellent choice IMO. That caliber has a lot going for it and so does the rifle. And the scope is a very good choice too. You'll be shooting tiny groups before you know it. There are lots of good rifles around but IMO you picked one of the best and probably about the best bargain you could find. Savage sells a lot of quality for less money than the competition. You should have no trouble getting out to 1000 yards with that setup and some practice and the right load.

 

[MtnCreek]

Good looking rifle!

 

[JW74]

I thought I would post a couple of targets with the new riffle. The first target is With Hornady 120 gr factory loads @ 100 Yards, shot in an indoor range. Looks to be sub or close to 0.5" with 3 shots.

The second target I shot yesterday with Hornady 140gr factory loads @ 300 yards. Measures approx 0.55". Again 3 shots.

So far I am loving this gun

 

[back40]

nice rifle, and nice shooting. i was eyeing one of these (12lrp in 6.5) just yesterday.

i've been plenty happy with my viper pst in 4-16x.

looking forward to some range reports when you get some handloads worked up.

 

[Cee Zee]

My LRPV shoots like that consistently at 300 yards JW. It starts to be affected by the wind at about that point but mine is a .223. Still I have shot groups like that at 500 yards. Savage might not make the very best rifle on earth but they make some very good ones.