M1 Carbine
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Furncliff
Member
Welcome to The High Road
What's the budget for the M1 Carbine?
What's the budget for the M1 Carbine?
Husker_Fan
Member
I picked one up in February for $500. It's a GI mix-master. The general consensus is that the GI guns are usually better than the commercial models. Most are mix-masters, meaning they have parts from many different producers. This is because they were torn down and rebuilt at the end of the war.
For example, mine has an Underwood receiver, Rockola stock/metal, Inland trigger housing, bolt, etc. There were nine or ten principal contractors and a slew of subcontractors.
For example, mine has an Underwood receiver, Rockola stock/metal, Inland trigger housing, bolt, etc. There were nine or ten principal contractors and a slew of subcontractors.
Husker_Fan
Member
Also, they are wonderful little rifles. I ran a carbine class with one and kept up just fine with the other six students, all with AR-15s.
Tinpig
Member
Just keep looking around at gun shows and gun stores. I would certainly try to find a USGI rifle...makes no difference which manufacturer.
I was lucky enough to be able to get two Inlands from CMP when they had the carbine returns from Italy. Keep checking their website. Who knows? More might show up.
Tinpig
I was lucky enough to be able to get two Inlands from CMP when they had the carbine returns from Italy. Keep checking their website. Who knows? More might show up.
Tinpig
bigfatdave
Member
EABCO makes the stock, I'd go with Tech-sights for that over anything else.
I have a GI Carbine from the CMP, if I'd know that it was one of the last ones, I'd have two. I have the EABCO+TechSight converted 10/22 also, it is a pretty good trainer and a LOT cheaper to feed ... .30carbine ammo isn't that hard to find, but nothing is as easy to find as cheap bulk .22lr.
I get old guys at the range who are delighted to see an M1 Carbine so often when I bring the fake one that I've started packing the real one even if I don't intend to shoot it, the stories the old guys share are worth a few rounds of .30carbine and carrying the little rifle to the range.
And the M1 Carbine fits me AND the wife so well that I've made it the standard by which all other long guns are judged ... get one, take good care of it (restoring is OK, tactical additions are not), feed it quality ammo from good magazines, and you'll have a lifetime of use, and likely an heirloom to pass down.
rellascout
member
USGI is the way to go. I picked up a IBM mix master with a Winchester stock a few years back. IIRC I paid $450
They are a lot of fun... and I agree with bigfatdave everytime I take it out to the range and older shooter comes over and checks it out. I have had guys tell me I have not seen one of those in 30+ years. My uncle tells me he used to go to guns shows in the 70s where they had bins of mix master parts where you go to pick the parts and assemble a rifle.
This is its big brother..... A CMP certified collectors grad HRA. I am still looking for a matching 1911. LOL
They are a lot of fun... and I agree with bigfatdave everytime I take it out to the range and older shooter comes over and checks it out. I have had guys tell me I have not seen one of those in 30+ years. My uncle tells me he used to go to guns shows in the 70s where they had bins of mix master parts where you go to pick the parts and assemble a rifle.
This is its big brother..... A CMP certified collectors grad HRA. I am still looking for a matching 1911. LOL
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451 Detonics
Member
when you go looking for a carbine, especially at shows, you will be doing yourself a favor by borrowing or buying a set of throat and muzzle gauges. If you don't want to keep them you can recoup most of your cost selling them on gunbroker.
Without the gauges you will have a tough time knowing if you are buying a shooter or not. I have seen absolutely beautiful carbine that wouldn't shoot for anything because of excessive wear and some that looked like 50 miles of bad rode that shot like a target gun. My Inland doesn't look all that great but it has the nicest throat and muzzle I have even seen on a carbine and it will shoot near MOA all day long.
Someone mentioned the 10/22 carbine kits...they do make for nice practice...
Of course you can buy commercial as well but some were good and some were not. The new Kahr's I have seen all shot well and worked great however. The first ones did have some issues but after Kahr bought the rights from Auto Ordinance the quality went up and buying a new one today should be good to go.
Without the gauges you will have a tough time knowing if you are buying a shooter or not. I have seen absolutely beautiful carbine that wouldn't shoot for anything because of excessive wear and some that looked like 50 miles of bad rode that shot like a target gun. My Inland doesn't look all that great but it has the nicest throat and muzzle I have even seen on a carbine and it will shoot near MOA all day long.
Someone mentioned the 10/22 carbine kits...they do make for nice practice...
Of course you can buy commercial as well but some were good and some were not. The new Kahr's I have seen all shot well and worked great however. The first ones did have some issues but after Kahr bought the rights from Auto Ordinance the quality went up and buying a new one today should be good to go.
bigfatdave
Member
451 Detonics ... I seem to remember the extremely helpful folks at the CMP telling me not to bother with throat gauging, just muzzle.
Was that because the CMP won't put a junked throat on the floor, or because the muzzle wears out long before the throat?
Just curious, as I remember that you can ghetto up a muzzle gauge with a 30-06 projectile, which might be easier for the OP than buying an arcane single-use tool
(I just borrowed the CMP gauge, myself ... it only cost me free dollars to do so, and I got expert advice while I was at it)
I'm STILL kicking myself for not buying a second one at the CMP when they were there.
Was that because the CMP won't put a junked throat on the floor, or because the muzzle wears out long before the throat?
Just curious, as I remember that you can ghetto up a muzzle gauge with a 30-06 projectile, which might be easier for the OP than buying an arcane single-use tool
(I just borrowed the CMP gauge, myself ... it only cost me free dollars to do so, and I got expert advice while I was at it)
I'm STILL kicking myself for not buying a second one at the CMP when they were there.
Just so you know, Kahr and later Auto Ordnance made and are making brand new Milspec M-1 carbines. Since A/O makes the Thompson, I guess they know what they're doing.
These carbines have gotten generally good reviews and even Big 5 puts them on sale for $700 now and then.
No, you're not buying a piece of history (and how are ya gonna know the history, anyway?), but you ARE getting a brand new gun with warranty and everything and it WILL be a shooter (or A/O will make it right, that's what the warranty's for, right?).
I don't own one (out of work for two and a half years, my gun budget is non-existant), nor have I fired one but handling them in the gunstore is a pleasant experience--they're not soaked in cosmoline and gummy oil.
IF I had a gun budget, that's the direction I'd go. If you look around, you could probably beat Big 5's price, but by the time you get through with paying for shipping and insurance, you're probably just about as well off. Plus, like I said, there's the warranty.
Just a thought--
ed
These carbines have gotten generally good reviews and even Big 5 puts them on sale for $700 now and then.
No, you're not buying a piece of history (and how are ya gonna know the history, anyway?), but you ARE getting a brand new gun with warranty and everything and it WILL be a shooter (or A/O will make it right, that's what the warranty's for, right?).
I don't own one (out of work for two and a half years, my gun budget is non-existant), nor have I fired one but handling them in the gunstore is a pleasant experience--they're not soaked in cosmoline and gummy oil.
IF I had a gun budget, that's the direction I'd go. If you look around, you could probably beat Big 5's price, but by the time you get through with paying for shipping and insurance, you're probably just about as well off. Plus, like I said, there's the warranty.
Just a thought--
ed
madcratebuilder
Member
Carbine prices are crazy from several years back. They used to be fairly affordable but even mix masters are bringing 5-600 bucks anymore. I've never shot a new production carbine and the reviews I see are mixed. I'd look for a GI carbine.
I still have two Inlands, fun shooters.
I still have two Inlands, fun shooters.
[email protected]
Member
anything built from 1942-1945 will do... (I'm saying the reproductions are not well thought of)
I changed a few things on mine though.... nice little rifle.. the round has more punch than you would expect from what looks like a handgun round.
I changed a few things on mine though.... nice little rifle.. the round has more punch than you would expect from what looks like a handgun round.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
I have been told to stay away from the Plainfield and Universal copies. Can anyone verify or is it iterweb rumor?
jimmyraythomason
Member
While this is true,it is also true that very many of the '42-'45 mils are just plain worn out. Outside of that they are also costly if you can find one. The commercials aren't all junk,if fact some are quite good. (Often, jamming problems can be cured by simply using USGI magazines.) The newest AOs are getting fairly good reviews and that will likely increase as more people begin to trust them. The pool of mil-spec carbines is getting depleted and the condition of what's left is getting poorer. People are going to have to buy the commercials for the manufacturer to see that there is enough of a market to justify the expense of manufacturing them. The military will never commision them to be made again so the only hope of new carbines is commercial manufacturing and they will only do it if the market will justify it.
Kahr and Auto Ordnance are the same company.
amd6547
Member
Plainfields are considered to be one of the better commercial carbines. I had one, and it was great. I have heard enough complaints about the Kahr carbines that I would be leery...especially since it is still possible to buy a USGI carbine for what a Kahr costs.
My CMP Inland is one of my very favorite shooters....
My CMP Inland is one of my very favorite shooters....
Dave Markowitz
Member
True for the Universals, largely true for the Plainfields (which includes the Iver Johnsons). I had an IJ Carbine in the 80s which had a bolt that was too soft. The locking lugs started to peen, so I had to send it back to the factory.
Early Universals will accept GI parts but the later models do not. You can ID the later Universals by the dual recoil springs, and skeletonized slide. Plainfields/IJs will take USGI parts.
Kahr/Auto-Ordnance currently makes replica M1 Carbines. Reviews are mixed.
Unless you are very familiar with the M1 Carbine your best bet to get a gun that will shoot right without tinkering is to buy a USGI Carbine. From Wikipedia, here's the list of GI contactors:
Inland Division, General Motors (production: 2,632,097), sole producer of the M1A1 Carbine. Receiver marked "INLAND DIV."
Winchester Repeating Arms (production: 828,059) Receiver marked "WINCHESTER"
Irwin-Pedersen (operated by Saginaw Steering Gear and production included with Saginaw total)
Saginaw Steering Gear Division General Motors (production: 517,213 ) Receivers marked "SAGINAW S.G." (370,490) and "IRWIN-PEDERSEN" (146,723)
Underwood Elliot Fisher (production: 545,616) Receiver marked "UNDERWOOD"
National Postal Meter (production: 413,017) Receiver marked "NATIONAL POSTAL METER"
Quality Hardware Manufacturing Corp. (production: 359,666) Receiver marked "QUALITY H.M.C."
International Business Machines (production: 346,500) Receiver marked "I.B.M. CORP."
Standard Products (production: 247,100) Receiver marked "STD. PRO."
Rock-Ola Manufacturing Corporation (production: 228,500) Receiver Marked "ROCK-OLA" [64]
Commercial Controls Corporation (production: 239) Receiver marked "COMMERCIAL CONTROLS"
Inlands are the most common and therefore usually the cheapest. Winchesters carry a premium due to the name. Rock-Olas carry a premium due to the relatively low number made. Let us know if you run into a Commercial Controls.
Pretty much any Carbine that's priced as a shooter will be a mix-master. E.g, Inland receiver with a Winchester barrel.
You should get yourself a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's The U.S. .30 Caliber Carbines: A Shop Manual. It's worthwhile to get before you go shopping, because it will show you what to look out for.
greyling22
Member
check ammo prices before you set your heart on one. 30 carbine has gotten scary expensive lately. Beyond that, Dave M said everything I was going to add.
Ignition Override
Member
madcratebuiler:
I bought a brand-new AO Carbine in October '07.
After about 150 rds. and gentle treatment, the bolt just felt wrong one day, and when I tried to loosen it, it jammed.
When it first jammed, my wife asked:
"You mean the gun store won't refund your money for a new $750 product which is defective?" The factory did a free repair.
While the gun was gone, I noticed that the authentic GI carbines have a more rugged, solid feel to their operation.
I did no reading about the gun before the purchase (my first gun deal). Big mistake. It was also my first and last purchase of a brand-new gun, due to the quick depreciation in value.
I bought a brand-new AO Carbine in October '07.
After about 150 rds. and gentle treatment, the bolt just felt wrong one day, and when I tried to loosen it, it jammed.
When it first jammed, my wife asked:
"You mean the gun store won't refund your money for a new $750 product which is defective?" The factory did a free repair.
While the gun was gone, I noticed that the authentic GI carbines have a more rugged, solid feel to their operation.
I did no reading about the gun before the purchase (my first gun deal). Big mistake. It was also my first and last purchase of a brand-new gun, due to the quick depreciation in value.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Thankfully, that depreciation is only temporary. At some point their resale value goes up. Example; A Model 700ADL Remington I bought in 1973 for $154.00 new is worth considerably more today as is most every other firearm I bought new. A used gun sells for less than new(generally speaking)but will sell for more than you paid for it new just a few years down the road.
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