M1 Double fire

[MechAg94]

I thought I would post this here. I posted it over on the CMP forum as well. I have an HRA Greek Service Grade I got last spring. I have only gotten it out to the range a couple times before yesterday.

Yesterday, after shooting through several clips of Korean PS ammo, I put in a fresh one. I believe it was the 1st or 2nd shot double fired. I heard the double bang and looked up to see 2 empty casings hit the ground. I figure I was lucky it didn't shoot up the entire clip. I did some test firing afterward with no more problems. I noticed the round chambered after firing would have a light mark on the primer, though not enough that I would expect it to fire. It would only mark it after firing as far as I could tell. I am just looking for ideas on what could cause that and what I can do to fix it. I disassembled it later and the firing pin moves freely. I didn't notice anything else.

I think there may be something I did. I fired my M1A immediately after and it double fired as well. Only it was heavily marking the follow up round. Again, it only fired two rounds. I had a 20 round mag in. I was thinking that I might have lubricated it wrong or something. The only thing different I did was put some Hoppe's gun grease on both weapons in the slots on the receiver that the bolt and rod slide in. Other than that, I can't think of anything I did.

Someone at the CMP forum mentioned "milking the trigger". I guess that is possible. I wasn't paying attention to my trigger mechanics so I will have to wait until I get to the range again to check on it. I just posted the problem there so I haven't collect many responses yet.

I was shooting Korean PS ammo with some Lake City mixed in. I can't remember what was loaded when it happened. On the M1A, it was likely some delinked surplus ammo I bought a long time ago.

Any suggestions on probably causes would be appreciated.

 

[Keaner]

I would try taking the bolt down, and replacing the springs. I would assume that if the firing pin was too far forward, it could cause a slam fire.

 

[MechAg94]

Please clarify. I didn't think the M1 Garand firing pin was spring loaded. It moves freely right now. If I turn it upsidedown, the firing pin will stick out. Turn it up and it falls back in the bolt. My other Garand is the same way.

I shot my SKS for the first time as well. That was the rifle I was concerned about for slam firing, not my M1. It looked to be grouping very well also, though I didn't have the right tools to adjust the sights.

 

[Sam]

You are going too easy on the trigger, shooting it like a bolt gun.
dtopping your trigger travel right after the break and it wil not catch.
Try giving it a firmer squeeze I betcha it will function fine.

Sam

 

[BFWE]

M1A Doubles

A few things:

First - Doubles can be very dangerous! You can have an out-of-battery ingintion and that could do your rifle AND YOU a great deal of damage.

If you have good pedigree ammo and still have the problem... STOP immediately and seek the advice of a qualified gunsmith w/ knowledge-experience in working on M1A's.

Second - BRASS is important for M1A/M14s shooters to get the most out of the rifle.

Breath
Relax
Aim
Squeeze
SLACK (as was said earlier, milking the trigger is bad.)

Third - Since the M1A/M14 rifle types have floating firing pins, too soft comercial or non-mil spec primers can be too sensitive. The firing pin can and sometimes does cause doubles when shooting this type of ammo.

Fourth - Lubrication is important. Get the correct FM and follow in.

Fifth - Hope you can find a Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) orginization close enough to be a part of it. My experience with the Houston CMP group at Byou Rifle Club was that it was jam-packed with VERY experinced/expert M1A/M14 shooters. I learned a lot shooting with them and made some really good friends.


Good shoot'n -- welcome to the Brotherhood.

 

[MechAg94]

Looking at the replies here and at CMP, I think that trigger control issue is probably the cause. Looking at the sear and hammer in my trigger group, I think I can see why. I was on a bench and trying to pull the trigger back slowly. In the past, wasn't on a full bench and had more incentive to squeeze the trigger with more authority. I'll have to work on my mechanics. Luckily, I have this week off so I have some time to do that.

FYI, I was shooting at Greewood club near Angleton/Lake Jackson. A member from work invited me. I have heard of Bayou Rifles, but not much more than that.

 

[Detritus]

FYI, I was shooting at Greewood club near Angleton/Lake Jackson. A member from work invited me. I have heard of Bayou Rifles, but not much more than that.

take a look at their website http://www.bayourifles.org/

i'm a member of Greenwood, and since i live only 20 or so mins away i have not persued a membership at Bayou, right now Bayou gets higher turn out for High power matches, least that i've seen, though i have not gone to many of teh across the course, or ANY of the garand matches for either yet.

Bayou's schedule is posted on their website. unfortunately if you're match oriented greenwood has not rifle matches from Oct-dec

mind if i ask if Greenwood was a long drive or a reasonable one for you?

 

[NineHotel]

The technical term for the cause is "milking the trigger". This is a very common occurance with the M1 Garand. Basically a combination of the rifle recoil, how tightly you're holding the rifle or not, and how firmly you hold the trigger to the back upon firing versus floating the finger.

So, nothing wrong with your rifle most likely, and modifying the trigger to make the "problem" go away is not a good idea.

Kinda fun though when it happens!!

 

[MechAg94]

Detritus, Greenwood didn't seem too far. Only about 30 minutes South of the Beltway. As long as gas doesn't go up to $3 again, it is not too bad. I don't mind driving though. Some people dislike it more.

From the map I saw of Bayou Rifles, it is quite a bit closer. Greenwood was pretty nice. It certainly wasn't too crowded. I was trying to decide if I want to pursue membership right now. I have no idea how much Bayou Rifles charges or what I would have to do to become a member. It looked like they had good facilities though. I consider myself a novice at rifle shooting and am just looking to shoot often and get more competent with my own rifles and those I might collect. I have not really considered matches. I don't hunt at all, I just like to shoot.

I have gone to Clear Creek gun range in League City a couple times. They are not too expensive for a single gun. They are more crowded and I need to get something to catch ejected casings if I am shooting there a lot. I looked into a gun club near Alvin, but they were a little steep for me at this time.

 

[Swampy]

MechAg,

When you said you'd been shooting off the bench it becomes obvious that "milking the trigger" is the cause...

To a bit more technical, when shooting off a bench it's very easy to shoot with a "fi-fi" grip on the rifle and not have much back pressure into your shoulder. After all, the bench is supporting all the weight of the rifle....

When shooting like this, the rifle literally bounces off your shoulder and recoils back into your shooting hand, causing the trigger finger to break the trigger a second time as it resets. No real cause for alarm here..... the rifle's mechanism is functioning normally. It's "operator error" that's causing the double discharge.

Just be sure that when shooting from a bench to keep a firm pull back into the shoulder with the butt.

In counter-point.... when shooting from position... i.e. standing or with a sling when sitting or prone, the rifle HAS TO be held firmly by both hands to keep it in position, negating any tendency for it to bounce back out and double fire.

Here is where a potential problem can be ID'd.... If you have an M1 (or M14-M1A) that double fires from standing or from slung up position, THEN you have a situation in which I'd definitely do some inspection of the trigger group. Problems with weak springs or worn beyond spec trigger-sear are a real possibility. This can indeed be setting you up for a dangerous situation. Get it checked out by a competent M1 'smith asap.

Just my thoughts,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[30Cal]

I agree it's most likely an "operator malfunction."

It's still a good idea to do a basic mechanical check. Check the rifle empty, then hold the trigger back while cycling the action several times (a dozen or so). Each time, check to see that the hammer is not following the bolt forward. If it is, you've got mechanical issues. It's not uncommon if you swap stocks or have recently had the rifle bedded to see this problem.

Ty

 

[DMK]

I had that problem with my CMP M1 when I got it. I thought it was operator error too, but the problem went away completely after I had Dean's Gun Restorations tuned my trigger and replaced all the springs.