M1 Garand, or Dragunov Clone?

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The Garand a NOVELTY...??? :eek: It's OK General Patton He knows not of which he speaks. Go back to sleep...If it weren't for the Garand you would be speaking German
 
If you need further votes for the Garand, ask the 1400+ National Match Competitors at Camp Perry last year, who shot the Garand Match, how they like their novelties
 
Yes, the Garand is a novelty, albeit a very popular and historically significant one. It was bleeding edge tech in the first half of the 20th Century, but has been out of mass production for decades, not to mention "obsolete" since the '50s. When was the last time it was considered for adoption by a real military?
Its popularity is attested to by the various M1 competitions, but how many are used in open high-level competition?
 
Milsurplover,
I gave you some pros and cons based on specific details and experiences vs. nebulous opinions otherwise it is always the same broken record like "mine vs yours" just like AR vs AK, 9mm vs 40cal and that type of dynamic that leads nowhere.
I hope you do not go crazy here. A good Garand might be an old design but one in good condition is a great system and a lot of fun, no doubt about that.
An Original Dragunov or Tigr might be and old design also but one in good condition is also an amazing piece with its history too (very hard to find). I am not sure about the clones put together here, anything can happen there.
All that I can say is that if I compare them side by side on average the Garand will get a tad better accuracy around the 2MOA. The design with the gas port forward and also the round has a lot to do with it. But we do not even know if accuracy is the main driver for you. I wish I could find a tigr in .308 but of all the systems based on old gas actions I tested the most accurate I found is the saiga .308 in 16" converted(&accurized) that is a submoa! carbine, in case accuracy is key for you. For me, among other technical and/or romantic aspects also very interesting, it is the main thing I am always looking for along with reliability....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005

A few clicks between groups
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saiga .308 in 16" converted(&accurized) - I would not be surprised if the tigr in .308 would be in the same league.
This could be dressup with timbersmith furniture and a longer brake for vintage looks. cannot even start to compare with any other AKs in terms of performance.
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Yes, the Garand is a novelty, albeit a very popular and historically significant one. It was bleeding edge tech in the first half of the 20th Century, but has been out of mass production for decades, not to mention "obsolete" since the '50s. When was the last time it was considered for adoption by a real military?
Its popularity is attested to by the various M1 competitions, but how many are used in open high-level competition?
Click to expand...

Novelty is defined as:
1) the quality of being new and fresh and interesting
2) a new or unusual experience or occurrence
3) a small usually cheap new toy, ornament, or trinket

Which of these defines a Garand in your mind?

Yes, it is an obsolete in the sense of a modern battle rifle, but still a very serviceable design, and chambered for a very modern, popular cartridge. Quality ammunition is available anywhere ammuntion is sold. The rifle itself is popular enough that there are businesses that specialize in work on the Garand and parts for the rifles are still available in used, new and NOS.

Speaking of obsolete, when's the last time any reputable army fielded a firearm chambered for a 120 year old rimmed cartridge? Heck, with the exception of Great Britain, all major military powders powers had transitioned to rimless cartridges by WW1. I can't figure out why European nations are still prodicing and using a semi-automatic chambered for a rimmed cartridge!

You need only go to Camp Perry to see how many Garands are still in use. I shoot local High Power with a fella who uses a Garand or more often than not he spanks the AR shooters, and does so handily more often than not shooting Master scores.

Speaking of competition, how many PSL's are used in any competition?
35W
 
35 Whelen, you got me, according to your definitions of "novelty"! :)
I was thinking of "novel" as " unusual, not common". Believe me, I did NOT mean to diminish the Garand in any sense. Fact is, the Garand is becoming less common day by day. It's our mission as Garand owners and shooters, to enlighten the ignorant and less-privileged!
 
QUOTE "35 Whelen, you got me, according to your definitions of "novelty"! :)
I was thinking of "novel" as " unusual, not common". Believe me, I did NOT mean to diminish the Garand in any sense. Fact is, the Garand is becoming less common day by day. It's our mission as Garand owners and shooters, to enlighten the ignorant and less-privileged! Quote"

Once again..Ask the CMP how much less common the are getting. They have set sales records 3 years running. There is a "finite" supply that the CMP estimates at around 2 yrs give or take. A dicussion for a different day. I was at a match in freezing Michigan last weekend that saw 45 Garand shooters show up. This in spite of a looming snowstorm. The Garand is alive and well..I'm glad you are an owner and preserver of the History. I know a ten year old boy when asked what he wanted for his birthday told his mom an M1 Garand. Well at lack of funds to purchase a rifle, she contacted me to take him to shoot an M1. I loaded up some dummy rounds and gave him one of My M1 manuals they send with the rifle and a CMP catalog to take home. Since that day last fall, this kid has saved every penny he gets towards his own M1. By the way..the kid almost cleaned me outta a whole box of reloads..:D
 
Garand or ????. If you have to ask, it can't be explained! (bang x8 then PINGGG) Or, of course, the manly thing to do would be to buy at least one of each.
 

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I remember how, when I was a kid, how neat I thought the Garand that came with my G.I. Joe (the real one, not that silly stuff that came out later :p ) looked. Of course, I grew up on WWII movies, so I saw a lot of the M1 rifle. The thought of actually owning one was the stuff of dreams...Thankfully, dreams do come true, but sometimes they take a while.
 
Yes, it is an obsolete in the sense of a modern battle rifle, but still a very serviceable design, and chambered for a very modern, popular cartridge. Quality ammunition is available anywhere ammuntion is sold. The rifle itself is popular enough that there are businesses that specialize in work on the Garand and parts for the rifles are still available in used, new and NOS.

Speaking of obsolete, when's the last time any reputable army fielded a firearm chambered for a 120 year old rimmed cartridge? Heck, with the exception of Great Britain, all major military powders powers had transitioned to rimless cartridges by WW1. I can't figure out why European nations are still prodicing and using a semi-automatic chambered for a rimmed cartridge!
Click to expand...

Taken from Wikipedia: "[Novel also refers to] something that which is striking, original or unusual. The term can have pejorative sense and refer to a mere innovation."

I didn't mean to say that the M1 was worthless or of poor quality. I think they are beautiful rifles and wouldn't mind owning one. But in this comparison, I believe I would get the PSL. The PSL is just a more modern design and I think taking magazines is a really important thing for me. Plus, if something bad happened to my PSL, i would be a lot less upset than if something happened to a M1, specially if it was a WWII vet.

So what if it takes a rimmed cartridge? It shoots just fine and the surpluses are cheap as hell. The only thing that I dont like about it, for reloading reasons, is that it takes a .311 bullet. But at least Sierra makes their match king in this caliber. At one time, I have heard that they did import PSL's in 7.62x51. Would that make it a better rifle?

So both M1's and PSL's are not competition guns. But I would put my PSL in competition against a M1 any day!

Another gun I would consider would be the FNAR. I have no experience with it but it seems like a winner on paper.
 
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i say PSL, not a tack driver but good enough accuracy. comes with a scope and could also use irons without removing the scope
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ifit, I havent shot any of that Albanian ammo though my psl, but 7.62x54r.net seems to say that its pretty low quality ammo. You should try some 7n1 and see what kind of groups you get.
 
yes these are very low quality ammo which has been sitting in a local shop for years, but its all that was available. where im from very limited on choices, what ever my local shop brings in is what i get, sad.
 
Was asked what kind of scope mount was on my Garand....I got it from Fulton Armory with scope rings...it has a peep sight also, the mount is made by S&K. Very solid mount an it hold zero, mounts in place after rear sights are removed, recommend a cheek pad with it also.
 
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