M1 Garand- Still on Duty 2007

[kBob]

def4pos,

Come on I tease about service stuff. Of my three best friends in High school on just retired from the Corps a couple of months before 9/11. One just retired from the office of the cheif of staff of the USAF. One got to West Point and got booted in the class of 77 Electrical ENgineering scandel and "Ich" went US Army Regular Enlisted Infantryman (in Germany and my maps of Hoenfels and such are in storage), got out and used yea olde GI bill to become an officer.....and the job placement tests I took between all insisted I was best suited to be a Navy Officer ( and may have been right)

As an Enlisted puke I worked security for the locked and loaded Pershing 1A system in the mid 1970's, mostly at Combat Alert Sites and the occassional Feild Alert (deployment) Sites. I was on duty at a CAS when we went to war status, awaiting weapons release in 1973. Big question was how far one could run in eight minutes....................

At least the hawk did not kick as bad down on the plains as it kicked you up on the mountain.

Commisioning for me equaled private office, seperate cubby office over in the motor pool, off post quarters, hot meals, a car, and a shiny butt on my BDUs and more wear and tear on my Greens. Yet some how I missed the Infantry life of only 28 days in garrison a year, missing meals for days on occasion and sleeping curled up with just the clothes on my back and my poncho on the side of a stony hill in subfreezing weather after having left the tanker roll with shelter half and sleeping bag etc miles back where I was told to stack it with everyone else's.

Ah, youth.......and topic drift.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[HorseSoldier]

Curious. I also wonder on the caliber, since all gov't stocks of 30-06 ball were turned over to CMP a while ago.

 

[Roswell 1847]

My assumption, had I seen such, was that his unit had confiscated it from the Iraqi insurgents, and somehow he was able to carry it around without getting hassled.

I'd thought about this as well.

As for an Honor Guard Garand being unserviceable, I once owned a Japanese Naval Honor Guard rifle. The Jap rifle had no rear sight and the barrel was a smooth bore tube screwed into the cut off barrel lump. The stock was one piece rather than dovetailed from two pieces like the service rifle. It was meant for blank firing only.
But near as I can tell the US was never into building or modifying rifles for blank use only.

Then again if the guy was hungry and knew he had to have a weapon on his shoulder to be served he'd likely pick up whatever rifle was most handy, perhaps a rifle he was in the midst of cleaning, regardless of whether it was functional.

There is a rule against using other than issue weapons. This is to cut down on friendly fire incidents when muzzle blast signatures might lead an observer to believe the enemy had taken a US postion and call in artillery.
Lack of faith in the 5.56 if not the entire M16-M4 platform has apparently led to more US troops using the AK or other weapons when they can.
Also since US Troops often work closely with Iraq Army I suspect they would sometimes want to carry the same weapons when in the field in combined operations.

PS
I've heard that the Turkish Border Guards still issued aging Garands to check points and guard stations. Of course they have only in recent years sold off stocks of Lebel rifles that were still in service with game wardens.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Curious. I also wonder on the caliber, since all gov't stocks of 30-06 ball were turned over to CMP a while ago.

Only "surplus"(excess) stocks were turned over..the .guv still has M2 Ball in inventory along with .30carbine as well...........

 

[pgeleven]

i was on rustamiyah from oct 06-sep 07 (eastern baghdad and most heavily indirect-fire hit FOB) the only rifles i saw our guys carry in theatre were M-16s, M-4s, M-14s a handful of MP-5's and a few M-24s. never saw a Garand. i think the original poster may be mistaken. also, we werent allowed to carry any weapons on patrol that we had previously confiscated, otherwise every squad would have had a Dragunov.

 

[El Tejon]

Maybe he was carrying the M1 on a bet?

"Dude, I bet you my last Playboy and four packs of smokes that you won't carry that M1 that Morrissey found to chow."

Young, dumb and wanted to stand out in a crowd?

 

[Cosmoline]

Maybe this war has been going on too long...

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Every Garand fan secretly harbors a semi-romantic notion that this is true; I have no doubt that this instance did happen. Why not? People said for decades that the m-14's would re-appear for combat use when the m-16 proved inadequate. To a limited extent that has come to pass. I have a friend who drew an 1897 Winchester trench gun that went with him to Iraq in 2003. There are MANY weapons in inventory that are far-older than any soldier serving.

 

[pgeleven]

oldest weapon in the US arsenal still in continued use:

US Marine Corps NCO sword

maybe we need some of them over there...

 

[Evil Monkey]

.....otherwise every squad would have had a Dragunov.

Our troops like the dragunov? Can you give us more info on why every squad would have a dragunov if they were allowed to? What does it offer that the SAMR and SDMR can't offer?

I've always thought the SVD was obsolete for squad use due to the fact that it's too long of a rifle and only has a ten round magazine. At least the SVD would be highly inappropriate in the US military considering the squad marksman is supposed to participate in CQB with rest of his squad. Kind of hard to do with an SVD.

 

[Devonai]

I would have tripped over my own feet and sprained my jaw asking that guy for an explanation.

 

[Roswell 1847]

I've always thought the SVD was obsolete for squad use due to the fact that it's too long of a rifle and only has a ten round magazine.

The dragonov has one very real advantage, its chambered for a round that can walk through doors and walls that the 5.56 can't penetrate.
Not speaking from any personal experiance but from reading about WW2 house to house fighting tactics. The BAR could chew a hole big enough to crawl through in the substantial European dwellings, and no sniper could be sure that his perch wouldn't become his tomb very quickly.
US 7.62 NATO AP rounds aren't as effective as the WW2 30/06 AP or the Soviet 7.62X54 AP or steel core ball. They've recently tried to upgrade US 7.62 AP by using a lighter hyper velocity slug, probably the wrong direction to take since its masonry rather than metal they need to defeat.
In one well reported action Jihadis took refuge in a basement and lay on their backs shooting up through the floor using 7.62X54 caliber weapons, the US troopers M4s couldn't penetrate the floor or the thick basement door two of the Jihadis used for cover.

Having at least one heavy hitting weapon would be nice. I'd prefer an M14 if suitable AP rounds were available. During desert Storm at least one well to do officer ordered European 7.62 NATO AP from a private manufacturer at his own expense to feed his company's M60's when he found that through a SNAFU almost all US AP ammo had been used up in training after Viet nam, and not replaced by later production runs. By the time DS rolled around none was readily available for his gunners.

 

[the foot]

Carrying is Carrying. M1 Garand is ok by me. Sometimes I carry my 45 Colt singe action.

 

[def4pos8]

kBob

You're forgiven.

If I had kept the stripes I started with, I'd have retired in '93 instead of being RIFed as an O-3 in '92. No tears on my part. I realized that I had joined the wrong tribe and was tired of working/dealing with amateurs. Wifey retired as a Major (Nurse) in '98 so we do alright.

Wearing bars and doing staff work had its advantages. I worked my POW (a Steyr SSG-P2) into our Operations Instructions. As a Jagdschein holder, the Deutschers were cool with me being a designated forager for my field unit.

During our final TAC/EVAL, I was the responding element to a "sniper attack". When the German and Brit evaluators asked why the Hauptman was low-crawling through the ditch toward the bad guy, they terminated the problem with good compliments when told that our Jaeger (me) found the prospect of hunting humans as a welcome change of duties. Insane people like me were in short supply.

Serving had its moments. . . .

 

[Nightcrawler]

Interestingly enough, they've been using experimental lasers in Iraq and Afghanistan to detonate IEDs from a safe distance.

Who would have ever dreamed that the M1 would continue to serve, in any capacity, even if only cerimonial, alongside first generation laser weapons?

Hell, who would've thought that the M14 would still be around when lasers and robots begin to appear on the battlefield?

Muchless the 1911.

 

[Titan6]

For the record I am 100% certain it was an M1 Garand. Me and one of my team mates both own one. He was as surprised as I was. Why or how exactly it got there is still a mystery to me.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Only "surplus"(excess) stocks were turned over..the .guv still has M2 Ball in inventory along with .30carbine as well...........

That's not what the last ammo spreadsheet I have indicates. All four DODICs for M2 ball 30-06 are slated to CMP support (which is now sold out of Lake City ammo), while .30 Carbine ammo does remain in the system to support SOF unit training.

Edited to add -- 30-06 DODICs don't include MG ammo, so maybe that's a possible source, though I'm still skeptical of someone being issued a 30-06 weapon in a go-to-war context.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Our troops like the dragunov? Can you give us more info on why every squad would have a dragunov if they were allowed to? What does it offer that the SAMR and SDMR can't offer?

Does offer some thump shooting 7.62x54.

Of course shooting it without the actual Russian sniper ammo and just running PK MG ammo, it's not really accurate enough for DMR use (I've heard 4-6 MOA from guys who've played with them in theater). The Russian sniper ammo supposedly tightens that up significantly, though how much of that you'll find in Iraq or Afghanistan is an open question . . .

I've always thought the SVD was obsolete for squad use due to the fact that it's too long of a rifle and only has a ten round magazine. At least the SVD would be highly inappropriate in the US military considering the squad marksman is supposed to participate in CQB with rest of his squad. Kind of hard to do with an SVD.

+1. You'd be better off with an SR-25 or even M14.

 

[Avenger]

I would assume that it was a pick-up as well. Maybe somebody just hadn't "gotten around" to reporting it in, or their sargeant had a weak spot. Now if he was wearing lace-up spats, I'd start to wonder what the cooks are doing to the food......

If I was issued a "Ceremonial" firearm in a combat zone, even the rear areas, I'd make sure it was functional (and usable) in short order.

 

[woodybrighton]

may have been a joke. Once saw a new LT issued a Tommy gun dug up from god knows where
there was a rumour that some L42's had been refurbed and put into duty basically a rebored enfield proved foundless though

 

[Mark Taylor]

Avenger,
"Lace up spats" are properly called puttees.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Nope -- puttees, which are a criss-cross araingement of overlapping bandages, are called puttees. "Lace up spats" are called "leggins."

 

[Mark Taylor]

Vern,
I have heard them called puttees, leggins, and gaiters; just not spats.

 

[Avenger]

Thanks guys, I knew there was a proper military term for them, but "spats" was all I could think of. It didn't help that I've been reading P.G. Wodehouse again.....British formal wear has a way of getting into one's brain.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Nope -- puttees, which are a criss-cross araingement of overlapping bandages, are called puttees. "Lace up spats" are called "leggins."

IIRC, the Marine Times mentioned that the designers of the new USMC digital cammie uniform had seriously considered adding leggings to the uniform, in place of boot-bands.

That would have been a bit of a hassle in hot weather, but would've been most distinctive, as well as WWI retro.