M1 garand trigger group

[Nickjc]

Hi all.

'56 hra garand. From a reputable NJ garand dealer

Greek ammo

Trigger group keeps falling out on firing.

Any ideas??

Any help or suggestion is appreciated.

Thanks nick

 

[krs]

It's supposed to do that.











The trigger guard locks into the notch at the back of the base of the trigger housing.

If you have the stamped steel type of guard you can simply bend the back of the guard toward the front slightly to increase the snap in pressure.

Te trigger guard has two round protrusions at it's front, to the side. Those are supposed to fit into cuts in the receiver and pull the trigger group up tighter as you close the trigger guard.

If you have the forged trigger guard you can sometimes peen the point of the clipping area, where it goes to the receiver, and make it a tighter fit.

A photo would help a bunch...

 

[Nickjc]

I bet it is.

Pics to follow. The lugs do pull it up tight to the receiver.

It is an hra trigger group. I believe fifties production if that helps any.

I thought the trigger guard clip in might have been the culprit. But I have no real baseline on HOW tight it should be.

Thanks for looking at this thread

 

[loadedround]

I saw this happen once during a CMP match. It was a stamped trigger guard that became either loose or bent. A little bit of hammer adjust cured the problem.

 

[Nickjc]

Pics...

Thanks for helping fellas!

 

[krs]

Looks good, and that is the stamped steel version trigger guard.

If there is a significant amount of pressure needed to close the guard that will be normal and what you want. If it was easy to close it would indicate that either the stock (the wood stock) is thin between the top and the surface where the trigger rides or rhat the guard lugs/receiver channel is worn. The steel parts are well hardened so the more likely culprit is the stock.

If you have to push hard to close the guard, say for the last 30 degrees or so, then just look to the small portion that clips into the notch on the receiver. Usually it's pretty difficult to bend only that little tab so most folks just bend the whole guard, sometimes with a rubber or hardwood mallet, as loadedround described.

It's sort of a "feel" kind of thing - doesn't take much to get the clip to stay closed and doesn't take much the wrong way to have it pop open unexpectedly. Most of mine need a pry with a large screwdriver or the like to open and keep my hands from taking a thump.

Whatever, it's pretty hard to do any permanent damage to those pieces as long as you keep files or dremels out of it.

EDIT: You know, I just took a longer look at your photo. Your trigger is set a little low in the stock, I think. This may not be a problem, but if your trigger guard is easy to close it could be that the stock was cut too narrow or the trigger inletting was made a little too deep. It looks like a new aftermarket stock - did it come from the ones that CMP is selling?

 

[rcmodel]

+1
It's a crummy after-market stock.

No way the trigger group should set down inside the inletting that far.

I would not bend the trigger guard tabs until & if it proves necessary in a properly inletted stock.

From a reputable NJ garand dealer

Time to see how reputable he is! Take it back and have him put a GI stock on it.

rc

 

[30Cal]

It's the stock. They can require a lot of fitting.

http://webpages.charter.net/tyoberg/upload/Fitting Boyds stocks.doc

 

[rcmodel]

That one looks beyond fitting, unless you glass bed it to get the guard up out of it far enough to lock tightly.

rc

 

[krs]

You're brutal, rc.

I was thinking to gently lead him to the conclusion that his stock sucks but I did miss that bit about "reputable NJ Garand dealer".

 

[Nickjc]

Hey Fellas....Feel free to let loose...I am not a dainty daisy and not easily offended. I came here due to the wisdom here etc...!! If the stock is crappy...hey it's crappy and I want a better one.....or should I say one that is correct....

Well here we are...I emailed the dealer and he wants to bed the stock to do just what you fellas suggested....I am telling him I want a good GI stock on the gun...for 900+ dollars ya think he could have made sure the trigger group was tight from the get go...I'll let you know what he says...

Thanks for the help and guidance it is VERY MUCH appreciated.!!

 

[1KPerDay]

Nick, don't let these guys freak you out. My CMP garands don't look much different than yours around the trigger group. A lot of the aftermarket stocks are "proud" around the trigger group and elsewhere. As said above, the relationship between the trigger troup and the recess/inletting in the stock is the issue.

As long as the relationship between the trigger group pad and the stock is right, it'll work. If it's really easy to close, it's probably the stock... you might try a new trigger guard... they're about 20 bucks. Cheap and easy to check if that fixes the problem.

 

[Nickjc]

the fella is going to look at it tomorrow.

I gotta get it to him etc. Prolly hold it a few days.

Will advise.

 

[krs]

The U.S. service arsenals would sometimes repair for loose closure by adding two lines of bedding material along the juncture of trigger bottom housing plate and stock. I don't know what conditions brought them to make that repair, whether stock shortages or rifle shortages or what, but I've found such bedding on two stocks which were clearly service stocks, not aftermarket. So, there's a repair.

It's not a desirable repair. Any bedding used in the rifle will make it ineligible to shoot in the John Garand series of matches. I think that every Garand owner should fire that match at least once. Doing it once is liable to get'cha hooked . If you just bought the rifle tell the guy that the stock is unacceptable to you and tell him NO, you don't want it bedded because you intend to use the rifle in the Garand matches. If he's as reputable as all that he'll know that bedding will prevent you from competing.

It's true that some aftermarket stocks are too deeply inletted but will still work by overworking the trigger guard or other manipulation. Heck, you could put cardboard into that area to shim the trigger downward.

A new triggerguard will not help with this as your contacts are not worn. The two nubs that go into the receiver cuts, if missing or so worn as not to contact the receiver anymore (this is hard to even imagine but I've heard that they sometimes break off in none USGI aftermarket parts)

 

[Nickjc]

Yep, I understand and I was hoping to do a high power match SOMEDAY...they have a two day clinic at my local range.

It is a few month old and due to work have not had a chance to really get it out to the range till this weekend...I am sure it will work out....

will advise as I know more but all your help has been invaluable.

 

[krs]

OK, good luck with the seller but if worse comes to worse this stock is a good one (they finally got it right): http://estore.odcmp.com/store/catal...pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=

If you do go to buy one from CMP I wouldn't be tempted to buy the one they list as a national match stock. It's cheaper, it has the correct routed bedding channels but unless things have changed the walnut used is too light - not good heartwood. You want good solid and dense wood on a Garand.

 

[Nickjc]

Thanks for the link....dropped it off yesterday at his shop....have not heard anything back as yet...we shall see....

 

[Nickjc]

Status update....:

Ok after emails back and forth since the 6th he says he finally got to work on it last night and bedded the trigger group at the stock...

Again this is AFTER telling him I would like a USGI stock in lieu of bedding etc...

So early this morning he responded that he can give me a new stock he did not know that i wanted that....

It should be ready later today...and will advise.....let's hope that the fitment is better....

 

[krs]

That's good, Nick.

In most cases bedding is a good thing if correctly done, but with the popularity of the John Garand Matches doing it on a Garand rifle limits the use and potential enjoyment of the rifle.

A good stock will not allow movement, or at least not much movement of the receiver in the stock - that's why it's made to have the trigger guard require a kind of difficult squeeze to close. It's locking the rifle into the stock with that pressure. Keeps the trigger group from falling out onto the ground too - but you already know about that.

 

[Nickjc]

Ok...Got the rifle yesterday and was able to take some pics this morning....the fit and finish of the stock are 'ok'.....too much wood IMO in certain areas.....however it is not bedded and the trigger group locks in VERY tightly. I cannot tell however until I get to the range and see. But, I can tell you that the trigger guard SNAPPED into place with authority and I can tell that i would need force to release it....

Sorry for the crappy pics...(I rushed them this am)...so I can get on with Mothers Day stuff !

With the nonsense I have gone through with this rifle, (emails...delays...no attention to detail) would I deal with the dealer again....maybe as he is in NJ....but I would press him on DETAIL. Not super happy.....

 

[1KPerDay]

New stock looks great... hope it solves the problem.

 

[krs]

It looks good, Nick, glad to hear that the guy didn't give you a bunch of grief over it.

 

[Nickjc]

Me too !

Thanks fellas for all the help....I will advise once I get back form the range in the next few days....!!

No not at all...he is an older guy and I thought I was making myself clear but I guess not.....