M1 - How did they do IT?

[Vern Humphrey]

Having carried an M1 in combat (as an Adviser, I borrowed one from the ARVN unit I advised), I never bothered about "topping off." When you're shooting, your'e shooting. When you're not shooting, you have time to do about anything you want.

 

[Selfdfenz]

Good point Vern.

I'll take a wild guess here and say TR is more of an issue/creature for mag fed weapons especially hi cap versions.

I also will hazard a guess that TR vs. "underfire reloading" for the M1 was the same thing. 8 rounds out as fast as they could be aimed and reload as fast as possible....in cases were there was no more shooting the last fill-er-up was a TR.

Cool thread

S-

 

[Joey2]

444 stop groveling, you brought up a good question.

I can tell you that we automatically inserted a fresh magazine it became second nature.

 

[Detritus]

first i will say that the question brought up by 444 was entirely legit, especially given the emphasis/importance given in some circles to the tac reload.

personally from the first hand (as in i somehow got them to tell ME about their experiences) accounts of a number of combat vets, i am rather dubious of the utility of the "tactical reload". especially in a rifle like the garand.

8 rounds out as fast as they could be aimed and reload as fast as possible....in cases were there was no more shooting the last fill-er-up was a TR.

Just lock back the bolt, hit the clip eject and catch your unused rounds. Put them in your pocket. Pop in a new clip. 3 seconds total time spent.

If a person is in too much of a hurry to do that, they should not be tac reloading.

these two quotes sum it up to me. with a garand there is/was no NEED for a TR.... you shoot till the clip comes flying out, then shove a fresh clip in there, or if there was a significant lull one might choose to try and top off the clip in the gun, or as my great uncle who is a Korean vet once said, a trrop could choose to pop the clip out, shove a full one in and refill the partial with loose rounds.

Tac reloads as we know of them now are MAINLY due to the combined effects of HAVING detatchable magazines, which have to be manipulated(sp?) to clear the way for a fresh load of ammo and a bunch of folks with alot of (some would say TOO MUCH) time on their hands to figure out "new and improved" ways of doing the things.

to paraphrase the combined comments along the same vein, of a number of combat vets i have met and spoken with in my relatively small number of (27) years, "if you got time to monkey with something you AIN'T in combat!!" and trust me guys a tac reload IS "monkeying with something".

 

[444]

Skip it

 

[RustyHammer]

Fix Bayonet!

 

[9mmepiphany]

444 -

re:lord robert's match why would you be surprised that a enfield could be fire, accurately, more rapidly than a garrand?...especially at 300yds. the enfield was the fastest operating bolt action battle rifle in the world. you also don't need to load it as often to get to 38 shots

 

[444]

Well first of all, I dont' think the match I linked to is representitive of what could be possible with an M1. In the match results listed, it appears that if you could hit the target every time, you would score pretty darn high without ever having to reload the rifle. In other words, 8 hits would put you high in the standings. However, the guy that allegedly holds the record made 38 hits in one minute. Can this be beaten by someone of equal skill firing an M1 ? Almost certainly. Yes the Enfield holds 10 rounds to the M1s 8. That isn't a huge difference. With the M1, you would have to reload four times. With the Enfield you would have to load three times. I don't know how fast someone that is good, and very experienced can load a rifle using strippers: I have never seen anyone that was good do it. I do know that you can load an M1 pretty rapidly. But of course the biggest thing about it is that you totally eliminate the bolt manipulation which would more than make up for the time needed to make the additional reload.
One factor that is sort of related: From what I understand, most of the world, including the British never caught on to the idea of using a sling as a shooting aid. The British had a carry strap on the Enfield. The M1 has a good solid 1907 sling on it that would aid greatly in making rapid hits on the 300 yard target.

 

[9mmepiphany]

for "speed shooting" an enfield, you don't lift your face off the stock while operating the bolt...if you're really going for speed, you squeeze the trigger with your middle finger while using your index finger to flip the bolt handle up and open.

the enfield was also reknown for it's accuracy at longer distances...even while hamper with a less than idea calibre. one of gale mcmillan's goals in life was to build a rifle that could outshoot, at long range, the enfield in competition.

 

[444]

One point of this exercise of course is accuracy. It isn't all about speed. It seems like a really cool match to hold. I would like to try it. I am going to send the link to the match director of our local Vintage Military Bolt Action Rilfle matches.
I will probably be using an 03A3

 

[Mk VII]

it's perfectly possible to top up the clip while it's in the rifle (as Hatcher pointed out in the 'Book Of The Garand' all those years ago) if you really want to. Just hold the handle back and snap fresh cartridges into the clip, up to seven.

 

[JohnKSa]

I haven't shot my M1 in awhile, but I don't recall topping off to be that big of a deal. Just hold the action open and push cartridges in like you're loading a double stack rifle magazine.

 

[VG]

Obviously you want the rifle fully loaded in case you need everyone of them. Is it possible to top off the magazine without ejecting all the rounds currently in the gun ? I realize you can simply eject the rounds in the gun and insert a fresh clip, but this doesn't seem practical to me during war. You would soon end up with a pocket full of loose ammo and no more in clips. How did they get around this, or did they ? How DID they do IT ?

One of the very best WWII firearms references is "Shots Fired in Anger" by LTC George. He was the Illinois state high power champion before his National Guard unit was sent overseas - to Quadalcanal. Later, he volunteered to be one of Merrill's Marauders, who walked over 1,000 miles through jungle to attack behind Japanese lines. Merrrill's Marauder veterans are considered honorary Rangers by the U.S. Army Ranger Association and the beret flash of the Ranger Regiment is that of the Marauders.

So, what did LTC George do? He describes ejecting the partially-fired clip, sticking the loose rounds in a pocket - if possible - and inserting a fresh clip.

There were plenty of loose clips around - they were often resupplied with loose ammo in boxes, or even on M1903 stripper clips. Units would try to send loaded clips to those in contact, obviously.