The Military and Jamming Guns

[Geronimo45]

Last night, I was watching the history channel's 'shootout' about the Pacific theater. One story was of a guy who fired 400 rounds, kept folks out of his trench for hours during the night... his two buddies were down, all had Garands. The narrator said that he fired his M1 until it jammed - then switched to another rifle. Stayed in place until, as I recall, the other two rifles jammed.
I'm wondering if the military taught soldiers how to clear a jam back then (WWII)... and how, exactly, would you clear a jam in a Garand? Namely, a double-feed? I know the tap, rack, and bang drill... but it seems like things could get hairy with a clip-fed rifle.

 

[RNB65]

I always knew there was something about the Garand that I didn't like (other than the weight). A buddy of mine had his Garand at the range last weekend. He put the clip in and released the bolt. The bolt closed about 3/4 way then stopped. He pushed on the handle with his hand until it closed. Then pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Then he tried to pull the bolt back and it would not budge. Both of us tried yanking on that bolt handle and it wouldn't budge. It took him holding the rifle braced against the bench and me beating on the bolt handle with a block of wood to finally get the bolt retracted. The whole time I was thinking that if we had been on a battlefield we both would have been dead long before we got that thing cleared.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The military term is "stoppage" which means "an unintentional cessation of fire" (as opposed to a "malfunction" which means "any improper functioning of the weapon" -- such as a failure of the safety, or the sight not holding zero.)

You don't tap-rack-bang an M1 because there is no detatchable magazine to tap. The proper immediate action drill is to pull the operating handle back and release it, then smack the handle to ensure the bolt is locked. That will clear up most stoppages. The next step is to lock back the bolt by releasing the clip latch, if possible, and clear bent or jammed cases by hand.

One source of stoppages in the M1 in action is severe overheating. The M1 operates so positively a stuck case may have the head ripped off by the extractor -- I once saw one with three such headless cases stuck in the chamber, one inside the other.

For a stoppage like that, the best choice is to grab another rifle.

 

[sparky2726]

If it had 3 stuck cases, one inside each other, the chamber must have been real loose to start with.

Sparky

 

[Sunray]

"...taught soldiers how to clear a jam back then..." Of course they did. How you clear it depends on how it's jammed. However, when the 'pucker factor' is at 11+ on a 10 scale, mucking about with a jam isn't a good idea.
"...closed about 3/4 way then stopped...yanking on that bolt handle and it wouldn't budge..." Indicates bad ammo.

 

[BruceB]

A very close friend served with Montagnard indigenous forces as a Special Forces advisor (on his second tour) in the mountains of Vietnam. Their weapons were all WW II vintage, being the BAR, Garand, and particularly the M2 Carbine, much liked because of its small size and firepower.. The people are small in stature, and his photos of them carrying the BAR and Garand really illustrate this.

At any rate, their camp came under prolonged attack through one long night, and my friend says he fired over 600 rounds from his Garand without a failure or stoppage of any kind. Photos taken from his position the next morning show a carpet of '06 brass, dozens of empty clips, and VC bodies all over the place. My pal was wounded twice during that fight and has the scars (and those from other battles) to prove it.

My personal (peacetime!) experience with the Garand spans four or five different rifles which I've owned, and if they are properly cared for, they WILL function very reliably. "Proper care" includes good ammunition, of course. Almost all of my Garand work has been with handloads, and even then they are VERY consistent and reliable rifles. This even includes temperatures down to forty below zero. My current M1 has fired hundreds upon hundreds of cast-bullet loads consecutively and reliably without cleaning, as recently as last year. I believe the count on that occasion reached well over 500 rounds before I stripped it just out of curiosity....it was still running just fine!

In the case recounted by RNB, the failure to fire was probably because the bolt hadn't rotated to the fully-locked position. Something about the cartridge was likely incorrect, and the bolt just couldn't lock up correctly.

I've had head separations in several different M1s and M14s, where the base of the case was usually ejected and the next round was a LONG way from chambering as it jammed tightly into the headless case in the chamber. The bolts were about two inches from closed. It's very hard for me to believe that three separated cases could be found in one chamber. DANG, Vern! Not questioning your honesty at all, but I just can't see how it could happen....

 

[Gunpacker]

Stoppages

Well, I saw the "Shootout" show mentioned, and was surprised that there were problems with all 3 M1s. However, this was at night and I would guess that even if the jams were simple to clear, it was easier to just grab another one from the unused ones beside him.
Another episode recalled the tribulations of a Marine squad in Afghanistan where 4 of 5 weapons failed, leaving a lone M16 to defend with against about a dozen Taliban. Failed weapons included M16s, a SAW, and I think, a shotgun.
One seldom hears of the enemies' AKs failing, resulting in lack of firepower though. Seems only US supplied guns seem to do that.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"One seldom hears of the enemies' AKs failing, resulting in lack of firepower though. Seems only US supplied guns seem to do that."

Nonsense.

For every dead American soldier, there are about 100 dead opponents. You only HEAR about the American stoppages.

Battlefield conditions alluded to in the "Shootout" episode is not the same as shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds at the range. The failures of the Garand could have been caused by environmental conditions (dirt, mud, battlefield debris getting into the action while open), excessive use (which causes excessive heat, lack of lubrication, swelling of parts, parts breakage), impacts on the weapons by enemy fire (it is surprising how common that is), ammo that is not up to spec (even if one round in 5 thousand was bad, they used a ton of ammo very quickly in those battles and coming across a defective cartridge is more likely than a problem with the rifle itself). Jumping to the conclusion that the weapon is faulty without knowing what the stoppage was and what caused it under a battlefield condition just demonstrates ignorance.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I like Gunpacker's answer. Why clear a jam, when there are two more rifles on the ground within reach? Plus, the shooter had already been hit a few times, plus there was an unknown number of japanese heading his way, it might have been a little stressful.

One seldom hears of the enemies' AKs failing, resulting in lack of firepower

I doubt if our troops bother to check the condition of the dead guys' AKs, to see if they died jammed or not. And if the other guys had jams and escaped, I don't think their media would report the jams. All they do is praise the martyrs.

I was kind of amazed that the soldier carried an M1 on the stretcher on the way to the rear, and rolled off the stretcher to engage a japanese squad. One tough (and probably scared s***less) hombre.

Regards.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If it had 3 stuck cases, one inside each other, the chamber must have been real loose to start with.

Possibly, but I was standing there when the Ordnance officer took them out -- after finding the second case, his eyes almost popped out when he found a third.

 

[Boats]

I see nothing wrong at all in using a "New York reload" in combat. At night, under attack, with a position to defend against an enemy who will show no mercy, why clear a jam when there are a couple of perfectly serviceable rifles laying right there at your feet?

What got me was that the dogface also shot and killed a Japanese scout and drove off an enemy patrol from his medevac stretcher!

 

[dispatch55126]

First to the Pacific Garand: I saw the episode, it was about Tarawa, correct? Anyways, look at the conditions. They slogged through the surf, crawled on there hands and knees up the beach, dug whatever type of foxhole they could and fought several firefights. With the water, salt and sand, it is largely expected to have "x" amount of weapons jam due to debris. Likewise, in those conditions there isn't much time to clean the weapons. As far as the M16/East Bloc debate goes, everyone knows it has to do with tolerances. The M14/M16/M4/SAW/ect are made with much closer tolerances since our military docterine continues to be one of precision fire, to pick your targets. The proper care and maintenace is also engrained from day one at boot. East Bloc weapons are made with looser tolerances. I hear its due to problems with manufacturing but I believe its be design, and smartly so. AK's are the most used and most prolific rifle around due to Russia "giving away" rifles to anyone who hated the US. Their design with loose tolerances lend the weapon to more locations and situations with less concern with cleaning and maintenace. You can take a SKS or AK, let the bolt rust shut, kick it open and shoot it. This is not to say one countries rifle is better than the other but its simply a matter of doctrine.

 

[c_yeager]

If you are surrounded by functioning, sighted-in, and unattended rifles it makes more sense just to pick up a new one when your current weapon jams than to mess around with clearing it.

 

[MechAg94]

The Pacific Shootout episode in question was about the Pelelui island campaign.

 

[vanfunk]

East Bloc weapons are made with looser tolerances

Clearances, not tolerances. I am not trying to be a jerk, just clarifying a frequent mistake made by many. The clearances are engineered into the design of the AK, and contribute to its reliability in poor conditions.

vanfunk

 

[Thin Black Line]

it was easier to just grab another one from the unused ones beside him.

+1. I'm not going to waste time with my weapon when I can more quickly
try another discarded one nearby.