M1 Socom vs. AR-10

[SkinnyGrey]

I own a Socom II however I have not shot it that much. I was considering trading it in for a Ruger AR-10, as the platform is much more familiar to me. So, I was wondering what the always informed members of this forum think is superior between the two rifles. Would appreciate any feedback.

 

[back40]

as far as superior, the ruger sr762 will win in the optics mounting category hands down. that is also the reason i'd choose it over an m1a variant.

 

[dprice3844444]

and disassembly for cleaning and reassembly and less chance of losing zero

 

[SkinnyGrey]

Do you guys like the Ruger SR 762?

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

if you are ex military, maybe experience combat....the M14 hands down....for jollies the newer AR varities might suit you.

 

[SkinnyGrey]

How would experiencing combat determine my liking one rifle over the other?

 

[kimberkid]

I like AR-10 platform rifles over the M-14 platform, and I own both; but I know nothing about the Ruger design and typically I'm not a Ruger fan.

I own a KAC "Stoner" SR-25 and a DPMS LR-308 and a preban Springfield M1A ... but I don't remember the last time the M1A went to the range ... It has to be 6-7 years ago and if it hadn't been re-built by a good friend of mine, I probably wouldn't still have it.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

How would experiencing combat determine my liking one rifle over the other?

Familiarization.

 

[crazysccrmd]

How would experiencing combat determine my liking one rifle over the other?

It would be a rifle you were very familiar with and carried when it mattered most. For me that's the M4/AR15, but for some it's the M14/M1A.

 

[breakingcontact]

How far are you shooting? Which models are you comparing? What optics are you mounting?

 

[BigBore44]

I'm a Ruger fan myself. And after holding the SR-762 I felt like it was a well built, quality rifle. But it just wasn't my M-14. Both platforms have their followings and have legitimate reasons for it. It's going to come down to which one suits your need/wants better.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I own a Socom II however I have not shot it that much. I was considering trading it in for a Ruger AR-10, as the platform is much more familiar to me. So, I was wondering what the always informed members of this forum think is superior between the two rifles. Would appreciate any feedback.

Go with an AR-10 clone. Specifically one that used DI and not a piston system like the Ruger. The piston system creates as many problems as it solves and while sufficiently accurate, will not permit the best accuracy possible from the AR-10 platform. More importantly it will be much easier to get and keep a DI type AR-10 clone shooting as accurately as possible than any M14 clone. You stated you are more familiar with the AR so unless you really want to learn a completely different manual of arms or have an emotional reason for wanting a M14 clone, stick with the AR-10. Guys with military experience (that includes me) posting on this forum that the M14 is so much more durable and reliable than the AR-10 probably have limited experience rebuilding accurized M14s that have gotten sloppy from rather low round counts and time in the field. If your AR-10 clone is properly set-up it will maintain its accuracy longer and be just as reliable as an M14 clone. The AR-10 will be much more user friendly for routine and rebuild maintenance.

 

[CGRifleman]

I have owned two different M1a variants and ended up selling them both. They are accurate and reliable, but features that come standard or can be easily added to an AR (like free float, pistol grip, optics, adjustable stock) are expensive and much more complicated to add to an M1a. I believe the AR-10-based platform will give you much more bang for your buck in available options.
Personally, I would trade it.

 

[powder]

If I were doing it over again, from my ArmaLite AR-10T decision, I'd go with the Ruger. If the rifle has any failures Ruger has been really making strides to get far and away from their competition.

I looked at the M1As b4 buying my AL, and the one determining factor really was weight difference. If you are confident that you'll just be walking from the truck to your shooting bench? I'd go M1A...., but I hunt with mine, so weight is an issue at the end of the day.

 

[Nom de Forum]

ahhh, but the OP was. you stated that he should pursue "one that used DI and not a piston system like the Ruger", then go on to mention that pistons create as many problems as they solve. i consider that to be misleading if you can't provide evidence of the rugers failing and creating problems for the weapon.

i haven't heard any complaints from ruger owners regarding the piston system in the sr762. if you have evidence of otherwise, please post it.

The Ruger piston system creates the same set of problems of any other piston system. This does not mean those problems are insurmountable. Just like the problems of DI systems are not insurmountable. You just have to choose what set of problems you want to deal with. I am indifferent to what set of problems other people choose. I will be making no further comment as I am not going to be responsible for derailing the thread. Don't ask me anymore questions as you will not receive an answer. Do your own research.

 

[itsa pain]

ahhh, but the OP was. you stated that he should pursue "one that used DI and not a piston system like the Ruger", then go on to mention that pistons create as many problems as they solve. i consider that to be misleading if you can't provide evidence of the rugers failing and creating problems for the weapon.

i haven't heard any complaints from ruger owners regarding the piston system in the sr762. if you have evidence of otherwise, please post it.

I would say both systems are very good but a piston system has more parts slamming around which might affect accuracy. Piston is better for ease of cleaning which can be stretched out way more then DI. But DI would be better for top accuracy with fewer parts being blasted around

 

[Ed Ames]

I don't have a SOCOM-II and I can't see myself getting one. I've had a SOCOM-16 and have handled the SR-7.62.

I think these rifles are so close together as to run smack into NoSD problems, as this thread demonstrates. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences)

The performance of the Ruger and SOCOM-II are going to be indistinguishable in the real world. The SOCOM weighs ~10% more. The SOCOM has a tritium front sight but peeps are marginal in the dark. The SOCOM has a compensator vs. a flash suppressor but that won't change your follow-up shot speed.

Personally, I would not make that trade. You will lose a fair chunk of money for zero change in performance. On the other hand, something with a free floated 20+" barrel? That would at least be a meaningful change.

 

[breakingcontact]

I don't have a SOCOM-II and I can't see myself getting one. I've had a SOCOM-16 and have handled the SR-7.62.

I think these rifles are so close together as to run smack into NoSD problems, as this thread demonstrates. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences)

The performance of the Ruger and SOCOM-II are going to be indistinguishable in the real world. The SOCOM weighs ~10% more. The SOCOM has a tritium front sight but peeps are marginal in the dark. The SOCOM has a compensator vs. a flash suppressor but that won't change your follow-up shot speed.

Personally, I would not make that trade. You will lose a fair chunk of money for zero change in performance. On the other hand, something with a free floated 20+" barrel? That would at least be a meaningful change.

I like the way you post! I've been thinking about how narcissistic it is to be overly particular. (Not calling out anyone, talking about myself!)

 

[Nom de Forum]

I own a Socom II however I have not shot it that much. I was considering trading it in for a Ruger AR-10, as the platform is much more familiar to me. So, I was wondering what the always informed members of this forum think is superior between the two rifles. Would appreciate any feedback.

Sorry to have inadvertently provoked a tempest in a teacup. I don't know how much you want to spend, but if you can afford it consider a KAC SR25. I have a KAC SR15 that is incredibly good. It has a much better bolt group/locking lug system that greatly increases durability. When holding the SR15 the balance is the best of any AR15 out there. The mid-length gas system and other tweaks make it very smooth in recoil. I do not own an SR25, nor have I shot one, but I have inspected one and was greatly impressed. I am a former National Match Armorer and instructor at USAJFKSWC. I have experience with many types of military rifles. That experience influences my recommendation of a DI type AR, and specifically the consideration of the SR25. What I have heard from people who have used the SR25 is that it is great! If you cannot afford the KAC, you can still buy very good less expensive AR-10 DI types. I have a plenty of experience working on M14s, M14NMs, and M21s to recommend the AR10 over any M14 based design.

 

[kwg020]

Hello all
I just joined this discussion and I agree with some of the points that Nom has brought (weight shift to the muzzle and more parts to fail) up but some I think are subjective. (harder to clean, less accurate) so I'm not buying it all.

The real issue is, is the M-14 design more or less accurate than the AR10 design and I say it is less accurate. It boils down to precision engineering and parts that fit tighter and the Stoner design has it over the Garand design. So much powder is going to create so much soot and some designs are better at eliminating it but the trade off is a more accurate rifle because of the locking system of the bolt into the barrel and trapping the round into a better fitting chamber.

I'll take the Stoner design for more (better) accuracy even thought I like the classic design of the Garand style of action. Is a piston design AR a better rifle? I don't know that is better but my bet is at some point in the future all Stoner designs will have a piston system of some kind but it may not look like anything we have now. Something like what happened to the M-1 that became the M-14. The design was refined and got better.

You have to ask yourself, am I a classic kind of guy or do I want to move into the 21st century? kwg

 

[kimberkid]

Back40 and Nom,
The thread IS being derailed. Since the OP asked about the SR762 and Nom, you claim the piston systems cause some problems, I thinks it's pertinent to the OP to list some of the problems. Especially since you claim the piston system is less accurate than the DI system. You've spent enough typing time saying why you won't list them that you probably could have listed them twice already.

Hear Hear!

Or is it:

Here Here!

??????????

The only problems I've heard of are:

1. Increased weight
2. Carrier tilt / upper receiver wear.
3. Premature buffer / receiver extension wear.

I have one conversion kit, an Osprey Defense for a 16" carbine / M4 ... The difference in weight between the DI system and the Piston Conversion is about 0.4 ounces. So it is more than the DI system but is about 1/2 the weight of a single round of ammo ... so this is not an argument, its heavier ... but it's inconsequential.

I haven't seen any complaints of #'s 2 & 3 in years, and since people still buy the conversions and makers now offer factory gas piston systems, my guess is the wear is so minimal that its it really doesn't matter either.

Now, back to my conversion; Even with the gun scoped i didnt see any difference in accuracy. The difference in frequency and time spent cleaning however, is considerably less with the piston system ... the only thing that keeps me from converting all my rifles is the cost of the conversion.

 

[C-grunt]

If I were buying a "general purpose" AR-10 today I would get the S&W MP10. From what Ive heard and read it works well and is accurate. Further more it balances well and isn't terribly expensive (for an AR-10).

Im not a fan of the piston ARs for several reasons but the biggest is proprietary parts. There is no standard. I have shot with guys using piston ARs for a living and they didn't stand up to well. The only design that I can think of that has withstood combat is the HK design.

 

[EchoM70]

SkinnyGrey, for what's it worth get the Ruger SR762, IMO.

I have one and it's been great. Fairly accurate with most ammo producing around Moa, with handloads .75 Moa. It has 4 different gas settings, while most piston ARs have only 2. So it's a little more versatile and robust. I haven't had any issues at all out of mine and if I do I'm sure Ruger will take care of me if I ever do. They're an outstanding company, one of the few left.

 

[Field Tester]

You need to give it a break.

The OP came and asked a question. You gave a half ass answer then basically said go do your own research. This defeats the whole purpose of a question & answer forum. I could potentially see your point of attack (because that's what it is, you've been attacking the other poster) if the OP asked specifically about piston vs DI systems (btw, I'm not going into the semantics about that either). But he didn't. Even if he did you could have simply said something along the lines of "this has been discussed ad nauseam here, here and here" while linking your previous posts.

The OP asked about two separate firearms. You may have had the perfect reason why to suggest one or the other and provide why when asked but you didn't. You chose to drag it out even when wrong. I think I speak for most when saying the OP and others reading to learn on the subject deserve more than that.
Your other option is to just post nothing at all if you can't be helpful.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just trying to point out where the frustration lies.
Nom, you have posted very fact based posts in the past and you seem very knowledgeable in the subjects you usually post on. I for one would have relished the opportunity to hear your thoughts on this one, just as I will with any others you post in the future. But you were wrong on this one my friend.

ETA, please forgive any grammar mistakes as I am on my phone.

 

[G.barnes]

I have a ruger 762 and its great. It was between that and a sig 716. I like the rails and little bit longer gas system. As far as extra parts the only thing I see that is really an issue is the bcg, the the carrier is all one piece no screws to break and from what I can tell a standard lr308 bolt will work in it. It will take any aftermarket mil spec stock and trigger upgrade. If you run the gas on the highest setting (3) it's like having a normal di ar. Almost all ammo will work just fine on setting 2. The carrier has been tailored to help avoid carrier tilt. Plus it comes with a chrome lined hammerforged barrel. I've never owned an m1a but from all I've read they are not the same gun today that they use to be that's why a lot of people change out the mim parts for aftermarket parts. As far as accuracy my ruger is far more accurate at distance than I am. If you really want accuracy then look at a bolt action. As far as weight goes if you want light you don't want a semi auto 308. They're all heavy. A 20 rd loaded magazine weighs a pound and a half. If your using it in a rested position the piston weight upp front is not noticed.