M16, sons going in Marines ? train w/B4

[Strange1]

My son enlisted in the Marines. He doesn't ship out fo rboot until September, so we havea little bit of time.

I was curious what he could practice with before he goes. Something in the same caliber and handling.

I only have handguns, so no rifles for him to shoot.

 

[FPrice]

First, I would insure that he is on a regular and strenous physical fitness program that emphasizes aerobic conditioning, running, and upper body strength.

Secondly, I would buy a Colt, Bushmaster, or any other good quality AR-15 clone and let him become familiar with it. Just don't let him get to thinking he knows it all cuz I am sure his DI's will show him the error of his ways.

And good luck to your son. I hope he makes the grade.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

He might be lucky to fire 100 rounds in training

Giving him a 10x advantage by buying a 1000 round case of ammo
and investing in a Bushmaster seems like more than a prudent thing to do.

Now what to do on the second weekend?

 

[eatatjoes]

just for thought: i recently had the pleasure of meeting a Marine in my math class who spent six months in iraq last year. we discussed many things and one thing i found interesting was that he told me the people who shot the best during boot camp were those that had never ever held or fired a rifle before.

our theory was that many shooters today are more recreational and don't develop the best habits when it comes to shooting.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Unless you're a former Marine PMI (Primary Marksmanship Instructor) and you can teach the Marine Corps way of shooting, the best thing you can do for your son as far as shooting is concerned is absolutely nothing.

Encourage him to run and work on his general physical conditioning.

His PMI will have to break him of his old habits when they get to the rifle range, so the best way to make sure he shoots the Marine Corps way is to minimize the number of bad habits he goes to boot camp with.

-Teuf

 

[El Tejon]

Strange, ensure your boy knows how one fits together, stretches and runs every day, does daily push ups and pull ups, and can do flutter kicks until he is bored. Running with a 9 lb. steel bar may be a good idea as well (check for silly anti-club statutes in your state).

Tell your boy thanks from me. I enjoy my life, sleep in a warm bed, and deal with my "problems" because of young men like him. Thank you.

 

[Jeff White]

PT focusing on upper body strength and aerobic fitness. If he's in DEP that long, he'll probably get a change to shoot in one or more of his DEP activities. The recruiters often borrow rifles from a Guard or reserve unit and conduct a shoot or two.

Let the Marines teach him how to shoot their way Then he won't have any bad habits to unlearn when he gets to boot camp.

Jeff

 

[Ed Straker]

The Marines will teach him all he needs to know.

 

[FitchHall]

No need for advance training on an M-16

I concur with the posts that advise against focusing on marksmanship training with a specific weapon prior to Boot Camp and putting a particular emphasis on physical (and mental) conditioning.

Although "Every Marine is a Rifleman," Marksmanship training is not even 1/10th of the training conducted at Boot Camp. However, physical conditioning makes up about 80% of the training in the form of specific physical training events (runs, hikes, endurance training, etc) or is incorporated into other training events (patrols, confidence courses, assaults, formations, drill, etc).

The Marksmanship Program at Boot Camp (and OCS for that matter) is VERY thorough in teaching the basics. All Boot Camp graduates leave with a basic level of proficiency with their weapon. Infantry Marines go on to receive advance training at the School of Infantry before joining their units. Once at their units, there are plenty of opportunities to fire and hone their skills, especially if they are in a deployment work-up. Non-infantry Marines (motor Transport, cooks, armor, artillery, admin, etc) go through the MCT school (Marine Corps Training) en-route to their MOS school. MCT teaches intermediate marksmanship. All MOSs are required to requalify annually.

So, in the end, all Marines are Riflemen. This was very apparent in Iraq, and it was the saving grace of a number of support units that found themselves heavily engaged by the Fedayeen - there was no "rear area" and no distinction between combatants and non-combatants in what was supposed to be the rear areas.

I've been on active duty for 10 years now. While I believe that the basics are covered and our Marines are as proficient as they need to be with their weapons - - - we all could use, and want to use, MORE AMMO!!!!!

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Yet another Marine writing in to agree that it's best to leave the marksmanship training up to the PMIs. As long as he's not actually afraid of firearms, lack or firearms familiarity should not be a problem, and might even be an advantage.

However, once he gets out of Recruit Training and MCT, it's very possible that he'll have a renewed interest in rifles and rifle marksmanship. Unfortunately (as a young MV found out a few years back), the military lifestyle is not conducive to firearms practice on your personal time. Mainly due to the difficulty of owning a rifle on base. However, should he end up on a base with a recreational rifle range, or civillian ranges close by, an AR-15 might make a great gift someday. Unless he's stationed at Pendleton or 29 Palms, in which case... um... any CA-approved rifle would be great.

If he's living in the barracks, he'll have to keep the rifle at the armory or at a buddy's house. Some armories will only let you check out weapons at pre-set times, some states frown on keeping weapons at others' houses. So the individual situation will vary greatly.

The best things he can do prior to going are to work on running, crunches, and pull-ups. Eat right, get all the nutrients for strong bones: stress fractures are a sure ticket to several joyous months in MRP (medical reconditioning platoon) before resuming training.

On the non-physical side, ask the recruiter if he can get the book of "knowledge": the assortment of Marine historical facts, military law, first aid principles, etc. The major academic requirement of Recruit Training is to be able to pass an exam on the above subjects. It was called the "Prac Test" a few years ago. If he's at all decently bright, he won't have any trouble passing the test. But it never hurts to study the book beforehand; one less thing to worry about.

When all is said and done, all a man needs to graduate recruit training is decent physical condition, average intelligence, a receptive mind, and the willpower to keep going.

 

[bradvanhorn]

I concur with those who've said, "do nothing" regarding his marksmanship training. I've been serving for over 15 years now, and nothing I knew before joining was ever useful. I've only failed to make expert with the rifle once, and I've never failed to make expert with the pistol, and those skills were taught to me by dedicated instructors. If he wants to shoot, then don't discourage him, but I wouldn't go overboard trying to entice him to learn to shoot right now.

I further concur with those who've said, "exercise and eat right." In my humble opinion, nothing could be more important at this stage. Most of the injuries I witnessed often had roots in the individual not having a minimum level of strength, flexibility, and endurance to withstand the rigors of recruit training.

My only other piece of advice is to talk to your sons recruiter. That Marine should be able to offer firsthand, in-person advice that will be easier to digest than trading threads with all of us here on the message board. While I'm sure everyone here on the board is glad to share their experiences, that recruiter is right there where you are to ensure no question goes unanswered.

 

[Brigrat]

Another vote from a former Jarhead, for not doing anything marksmanship related. He will fire many thousands of rounds before qualification day once he gets there. Pull ups on the other hand, are a real problem, and he better run fast, because he will be doing a lot of that. Wish him luck from me, he has no idea what a fraternity he is joining. I am third generation myself, and have never regreted the decision I made (since I got out that is) he will never be the same again. Trust me!!!

 

[Ed Straker]

MatthewVanitas, I called MRP 'Motivation Removal Platoon'. Guess what - Got a stress fracture. I can still feel it in my left Tib, and it showed up on a bonescan 11 years later.

 

[echo3mike]

Another suggestion from a former Jarhead: aside from the PFT componants, (run, pull-ups and sit-ups), the big killer for me was the humps. I only remember 4 or 5 at PI, 5 or 6 at MCT, and a bunch for SOI. Couple of 15 -20 milers. A.L.I.C.E kicked my arse on alot of them... hauling an M60 on one or two was worse. (do NOT let him sign on for crew served weapons... mortor base plates are the B!TCH).

Intestinal fortitude makes up for alot, but a well laoded pack can be a blessing. Might be a good idea to learn how now, vs. 4 miles into an 18!

S.

 

[JamisJockey]

If your son is a shooter already, don't worry. If not, you may want to teach him the safety basics. The Corps will teach him all he needs to know as far as Marksmanship, and will turn him into a fine intsturment of war.

Another vote to make sure he's physically ready. I was a Triathlete and track runner before boot camp and it was still a butt kicker. I suggest Running, pullups, situps, lots of pushups, and maybe some long hikes. If he doesn't know how to swim, get his butt down to the Y for some lessons.

Parris Island Alumni, 1992,

 

[chino]

Hi

I served in the infantry as a fresh conscript and then as a reserve for over ten years.

I have never even got close to a firearm before military service as it is illegal to own firearms here in Singapore.

But soon as I got an M-16 in my hands, I found I was quite a natural at it. After less than one 100 rounds, I started scoring marksmanship grades on iron sights.

Even when they made the tests more difficult by making us run and shoot, run and shoot, I was still scoring marksmanship grade.

This is possible simply because I remember and put into practice every single technique for breathing, pulling your rifle butt into the hollow of your shoulder, squeeze not pull the trigger, estimating moving target speed etc.

So I actually feel that it may be best for your son to learn how to shoot only in the army. They have a way of programming things into your head that you won't forget even in the most dire moments years later. Better to be a blank piece of paper than to learn techniques that may not be suitable for military shooting.

I agree with most people here that fitness is the single MOST important training. If you are fit, you learn faster.

 

[fix]

As others have said, nothing. The top things Marine Recruits had trouble with in boot camp (when I went through) are, in this order:

1. Stress - Not much you can do there.
2. Running - Run.
3. Pull ups - Do pull ups.
4. Weight - Diet.
5. Academics - Mostly related to #1. Ask recruiter for "knowledge".


We started with 72 guys in our platoon. We lost 12 in the first week (stress). With rare exception, everyone had trouble running during first phase (you run a lot). 5 failed the Initial Strength test because of slow run times. 3 failed to do the required number of pullups (4 at the time). An additional 9 were labeled fatbodies and put on a restricted diet. Boot camp is not the place to try to memorize the material required in academics. The guys who scored high on the tests had everything down before they got there. Without exception, everyone else scored lower because they were trying to learn while stressed out. Nobody failed, but there were plenty of folks on the quarterdeck that night. We only had 1 guy who didn't qualify at the range. Ironically, he was one of 3 guys who had an AR at home. Out of the other two, 1 shot expert (barely) and the other made high sharpshooter. Our high shooter had NEVER touched a firearm in his life.

 

[riverdog]

I agree with those who say do the PT and let the Marines teach him to shoot. Ever tried to teach someone with a well developed flinch? Besides, if you don't own a rifle, who will be the instructor? Buy an AR-15 after he leaves and when he comes home on leave he can teach you.

Run, push-ups, pull ups, leg lifts & sit-ups, then repeat. Have him do some more when he's tired.

 

[cookhj]

the best thing to do is to not teach him how to shoot. i used to shoot service rifle competition andi fired so many thousands of rounds doing that and learning positions that i really didn't have that many bad habits. i was my platoon's high shooter at parris island and i've shot expert every other time as well, but that's only because i was a very experienced shooter when i went to boot camp.