M1A questions

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ny32182

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I just traded for a Springfield M1A Scout Squad.

I am totally new to the platform so will likely come up with a lot of dumb questions as I go. Hopefully the experts here can help!

I've read through the Springfield M1A manual. I note that they state repeatedly to minimize disassembly of the rifle due to potential premature parts wear that could affect accuracy. How great a concern is this, really? I have not taken it apart yet. The previous owner states that approximately 180 rounds have been fired through the rifle so far, so I'm assuming it has not seen a lot of disassembly.

Also it appears that a standard cleaning rod will not work to clean the bore of this rifle... what is the preferred equipment here? I assume some sort of boresnake to pull patches through? Hoppes on the wood stock is probably not a good idea?

The only "physical anomoly" I noted in my initial examination is that the front sight was cranked way to the right, and the rear sight was cranked a few clicks left, as though the rifle was shooting way to the right. I moved the sights back to the center just so I have a "center" reference for my first range trip. The M1A manual references other documentation for zeroing procedures, etc, that I will be trying to track down shortly.

Thanks for any input.
 
You don't need to be paranoid about disassembly, but I would keep it together to a greater extent than I do with an AR or FAL. There is a sort of friction fit between the trigger group and receiver which can wear over time. However, I have not heard of military M14s wearing out there, and the navy is still using M14s made around 1960.

For cleaning I really like a pull-type cable, with the Otis kit my favorite. Otherwise you can use a bore guide and clean from the muzzle if you want, but that's not ideal.
 
Thanks... so is there any special trick to pulling on the trigger guard for disassembly? The manual says "up" and "out", which are the same direction to me in that circumstance... do you need any pressure forward or backward? Is the base of the trigger guard hooked around anything?
 
Just pull on it. It will come up and out on its own. For some reason its always harder for me to put it back on than it is to take off.
 
Basically you just pull but it may take a lot of effort. The up and out refers to the guard being hinged at the front, I think. To reassemble I push on the metal around where the guard meets the stock, not on the guard itself, until the pieces are basically together and only then I push on the guard to lock it in place. You may want to experiment some.

BTW, if you want spare magazines, CMI mags are the way to go, and 44mag.com is likely the cheapest place to buy them.
 
Yeah wear is mostly a concern on National Match and other rifles with glass bedding, as taking the rifle in and out of the stock can mess with the bedding job. Other than that, it was and is a military (pattern) rifle. Lots of people took that rifle apart and put it back together again many, many times. Under normal use, I don't consider it much of a risk. The rifle is solid and doesn't really need you to baby it much. I'll run an Otis cable or Boresnake through my M1A and wipe down the gas piston every few hundred rounds, but other than that, mine doesn't get a whole lot of cleaning. It doesn't seem to mind or even notice, actually. Every 500 rounds or so I'll take it out of the stock, field strip it, wipe it down really good, get everything clean and dry, then apply a light coat of CLP to the bolt and receiver rails (light coat, anything that seems to drip or accumulate is wiped off with a clean rag), then apply a light coat of Tetra Gun Grease to the threads of the gas cylinder plug and repack the bolt roller. Reassemble, apply very light coat of CLP to exterior of the rifle, wipe off excess grease, and you're good to go.

The rifle had such an illustrious career as a match and competition rifle that some people forget the rifle's origins. While the gas system was redesigned, the bolt and most of the receiver is based off the M1 Garand--a rifle which never seemed to suffer a reputation of fragility nor unreliability in adverse conditions. The rifle is very durable. It was our last and finest true Main Battle Rifle. That is why every once in a while when I find myself getting too enamored with the rifle's excellent accuracy, or simply am bored of shooting paper, I insist on blowing apart some old household appliances or electronics, or capping some dirty Pinko water jugs behind some cinder blocks or a foot and a half of pine.

"Get some!"
 
Thanks for the links...

So I did a field strip last night; I think it went well; the cross pin holding the spring guide had me thrown for a minute (diagram in the manual is not that clear; should have checked out one of the links above first!).

Everything I can see internally was already very clean, so I guess the prior owner cleaned it well or really didn't shoot it that much. The only thing I didn't take out was the gas plug/piston. I might do that tonight; I am planning to shoot it this weekend. Some more various thoughts/questions:

1) It looks like the piston system is likely a short stroke design; is that correct?

2) I can see why the terminology for the parts of this rifle is different than most others. Unlike the AR/AK/FAL/any other semi rifle I've had, this rifle does not have any part that can reasonably be called a bolt carrier. The bolt just rides directly in the receiver, and is moved by the... op rod, which is a separate part impinged upon by the piston.

3) After taking it apart I'm kind of surprised this rifle has such an outstanding reputation for accuracy/match use.... The barrel has all kinds of stuff attached to it (op rod guide, scout rail in this case, doesn't look free floated near the muzzle). Also the bolt locking mechanism (lugs, etc) does not look like it would lend itself to accuracy. Shows what I know about firearm design I guess. The sights do seem to be very nice and look easy to use.

4) The gas is either on or off/no adjustable (in terms of intermediate settings) regulator present; is that correct?

5) I note the firing pin is free floated; just want to confirm that is as it should be.

6) Are there ever any issues with retaining zero after a field strip? I wouldn't think so since the sights are attached to the receiver/barrel assembly, but then the whole point of a bedding job is for tight/consistent fit between the receiver and stock, right?

Looking forward to shooting it. I will clean it like MT advises.
 
1) Yes, basically. It's a short-stroke piston but it also has a moving gas cup that allows it to somewhat moderate the bolt speed even with different pressure levels at the gas port.
2) Yes.
3) Yes, somewhat. The bolt design is fine for accuracy, just like most bolt-action rifle bolts. But there is far too much stuff touching the barrel. IMHO the reputation for accuracy is a bit overblown and is based on what a super-finicky glass-bedded match rifle can do. It is much more difficult to get high accuracy from the M1A than from a free-floated AR15.
4) Yes.
5) Yes, free floated, as is standard for most military-style guns. Be sure to read up on the risk of slamfires. In short, keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and never drop a round into the chamber and then drop the bolt onto the loaded chamber; always load from a magazine.
6) Yes, zero can change. Look at all that stuff touching the barrel - think all the pressure points are identical before and after field stripping? It's not a big deal though for non-match shooters.
 
Z-Michigan, I have to disagree with point 6. Of all the armorers I have spoken to, and manufactures, they all say that field stripping, typically will not change the zero of the rifle. Now, field stripping every day can cause a zero change further down the road.

Just what I have found.
 
I took it out and put a few rounds through it today; mostly South African surplus. Things noted:

1) After the last round had been fired, it was locking open via the bolt catching on the follower rather than the bolt catch. Not sure what to make of this since the mechanism works correctly when retracting the bolt by hand on an empty mag. I only have one mag for it; is there a high probability this might be caused by a potentially bad mag?

2) I had to put the sights right back where they were before to get on in terms of windage. With everything centered it was hitting about 1.5 feet to the right at 100yd. Front sight all the way right, rear sight about four clicks to the left to get the windage right; is that acceptable?

3) I wasn't real impressed with the accuracy, but I think the ammo will bear as much of the blame as anything here; I did get 5rds of Black Hills from someone else and shot a better group with that. I will run some handloads in it next time out to further evaluate accuracy.

Other than that it was nice to shoot; recoil impulse was notably less than the 16" FAL I also had out (muzzle break at work here I assume); ejection was nice and consistent in the 1 oclock direction. I plan to continue working with it.
 
#1, sounds like the magazine follower isn't quite right or got rounded off from use. The left rear of the follower is a fairly pointy tab that sticks up to activate the bolt hold-open. If it's not pointy enough, the bolt may stop on another part of the follower like you describe. I've only seen this happen with a Taiwan T57 mag. Replacement followers are a buck or two each at 44mag.com.

#2, that sounds like a problem, but I'm not an expert there.

#3, try some different loads and practice some more and you'll determine whether it's you or the rifle.
 
Quite a few SA M1a have come out of the factory where they would zero with the sights anywhere close to centered. Talk to Springfield. They can fix the problem, though I don't know the cost.

Make sure you keep oil and grease off the firing pin. Too much - particularly on a cold day, and you can get a slam fire. Parts of the action are supposed to be greased, not oiled.

On many SA M1as, it is often very difficult to get the op rod off. It's really not necessary to remove it in most cases.

If the bolt is not locking on the hold open, it may be a weak hold open spring, underpowered ammo or too much crud in the piston. You can use 0.183 (#15)and 0.323 (P size) drills to clean out the piston. Sets are available from Sadlak and others.

As always, try a different magazine first.
 
The magazine I have looks fairly beat up all the way around, so I ordered 5 new USGI mags from 44mag to try out.

New mags and some handloads will be with my on my next range trip. I don't expect those to correct the windage issue, so I will probably shoot it one more time and then call Springfield to see about that.

The op-rod came right off for me, no problem.
 
My M1A loaded tends to have two different zeros - depending on whether i'm using a sling or not. I keep it zeroed to shoot with the sling, about 3-4" to the right of no-sling-zero (i'm a lefty), since i leave the sling on it...but with 18"@100yds I'd definitely call Springfield.

I also run mainly SA surplus.
 
One thing I've noticed with the new magazines (have not fired any through them yet) is that just like with the other one, the follower basically pushes the bolt catch over and then extends up just a tad more above it. The bolt catch is seated on the side of the follower rather than on top of it like you would see with an AR, FAL, etc. Does that sound normal?
 
My CMI mags come to a fairly sharp point at the corner where the bolt catch is hit. As far as I can tell that sharp point pushes directly up on the bolt catch, not sideways. What you describe sounds more like the functioning of my Taiwan mags, which generally work but have not been 100% at locking the bolt back. Is there a sharp point at the corner of the follower in your new mags? And are they CMI mags?
 
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