M1A VS Sig 716 VS SCAR 17s VS FN FAL

[Browning]

I'm still curious about this whole Leading edge technology thing of the FN SCAR 17s over the other rifles mentioned. Was thinking at some point we'd find out (because if there was some advantage to the other rifles listed it would be one of the first things talked about). I waited, but it hasn't been talked about so I guess I'll just have to ask point blank ... What does does this leading edge technology consist of?

It's a very nice rifle, I think so every time my buddy brings his to the range. However I haven't felt/seen it do anything that the FAL or the M1A doesn't do for 50% less which adds up to somewhere between $1300 and $1700.

Depending on what price you're paying extra for that SCAR 17s, that extra money you're paying could be the cost of a 2 day class which averages around 1,200 rds of ammo invested (cost for the class : $500) and 2,560 rds of brass ZQI ammunition/$1199 (cost : $1699).

Or 2,560 rds of ammo ($1199) and 5 FAL mags/$94.95 (cost : $1294). Or some variation there of.

I'd much rather have training and both the ammo to do the class as well as extra ammo on top of it or the ammo and mags. The skill and ammo to use the FAL or an M1A is much more likely to help me out than the rifle coming from the factory in flat dark earth.

It would have to be a hell of a rifle chock-full of new technology (that actually worked and that actually brought something advantageous to the table, as we all know *new* does not always mean *better*) to beat training and ammo that a new buyer would have missed otherwise. In shooting the 17s several times I just haven't seen any improvements worth missing all that.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I built a metric pattern FAL during the golden age of $25 surplus ammo battle packs and $6 magazines.

It's never ceased to amaze me. I've shot ammo from the USA, Portugal, S Africa, India, Britain, Australia, etc, etc. I've never adjusted the gas system, and it's never failed to fire. It's wicked accurate too. It'll ring a 12" plate at 200 yards 100% of the time.

That said, it's heavy, ammo is heavy, ammo is expensive now, and it get hot very quickly under sustained fire, so my FAL mostly a safe queen and holdover from my younger days when I thought I needed a rifle to potentially combat a herd of charging tyrannosaurus.

It's my baby. I built it, but it just doesn't get used.

 

[ttarp]

I think ergonomics, light weight, and muzzle break are what folks call "leading edge technology" on the scar, but I'm not certain. Maybe flat dark earth has something to do with it...

 

[Browning]

The

I think ergonomics, light weight, and muzzle break are what folks call "leading edge technology" on the scar, but I'm not certain. Maybe flat dark earth has something to do with it...

1) The ergonomics or the SCAR17s aren't any better than the DSA SA58. Have you actually shot both? No advantage.

2) 8.35 lbs vs 8 lbs / slight advantage on paper. (Perhaps thats the reason the PWS Brake comes standard?)

FAL SA-58 (*Click*)

FN SCAR 17s (*Click*)

3) You can actually put a muzzle brake on the FAL as well (although I'd prefer a FH simply because I often shoot in crap light and prefer not to be blinded). Still no advantage.

You really going to try to hang your hat on 0.35 of a pound and claim that's worth all that? DSA has lightweight model now (7.3 lbs unloaded), but it's a bit more.

...and still not seeing it. Maybe cause there's not much advantage to see.

That FDE finish is nice though. Just not that nice.

 

[helitack32f1]

While I have not shot any of the guns mentioned, I am just gonna go ahead and vote for the Ruger SR762. Occasionally I start comparing the 7.62 autoloaders out there and it seems as though the SR has a great reputation for accuracy, reliability, and is pretty close to the least expensive 7.62 auto loader out there. It is also an amazing feeling rifle as well.

But, I am kinda picky about looks too which is one reason I would take the Ruger over the SCAR but to me, the most obvious reason to not get the SCAR is the huge price and the mags.

It also seems that the further I go into looking up info on M1A's, the more issues with reliability show up.

 

[tarosean]

Maybe flat dark earth has something to do with it...

you left out that it is polymer... leading edge, circa 1950's

 

[ttarp]

I haven't actually shot either Browning, I'm a PTR91 fan myself, so you can see how much stock I really put into ergonomics. Given my lack of experience with the scar maybe I shouldn't be poking fun at it, but when something cost that much I can't take it too seriously.

 

[Kruff]

Like my vehicles, I prefer my guns to be visually appealing.
IMO the SCAR is butt ugly while the FAL is just plain bad a$$ looking.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Here is my old FAL. It's built on a Chilean parts kit, Imbel receiver, Argentine chrome lined barrel, FSE fire control group, penguin furniture.

I once took down a hostile & charging self-propelled lawnmower with it.



Touched off a nice fire when a 7.62 NATO ball blew bits of the carburetor through the hot cylinder head. Then the gear drive oil lit, and she really flamed up.


I sure miss the good old days when 7.62 NATO was cheaper than .223.

P.S. there is a very good reason why I keep heat resistant gloves in the FAL's rifle case.

 

[Browning]

I haven't actually shot either Browning, I'm a PTR91 fan myself, so you can see how much stock I really put into ergonomics. Given my lack of experience with the scar maybe I shouldn't be poking fun at it, but when something cost that much I can't take it too seriously.

Fair enough. That's why though.

----

I like the H&K/PTR too. Grew up on a H&K 91 (and an M-14 and two Garands) in the 70's and 80's that were my dads and when I got out on my own I got a 91 and later a PTR.

The FAL (and the 17s) kills it on reloads though.

(By the way, not sure what's up with that blue frowny face - I didn't put it there and can't take it off)

 

[Kruff]

Double post

 

[Kruff]

DaisyCutter, very nice.

I have the Austrian STG58 built on an Entreprise receiver. Pic was taken with the Trilux scope and mount. I didn't care for it at all so I removed it and went back to open sights.

Had a few feeding problems with mags from an unknown maker. Bought some Steyr mags and now she'll run all day without no problem.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Super sexy rifle Kruff!!

 

[Kruff]

Thanks DC. She's a keeper.

 

[adcoch1]

The steyr mags btw are the only mags I haven't had to tune up to run flawlessly.. good lookin rifle...

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk

 

[Nature Boy]

It also seems that the further I go into looking up info on M1A's, the more issues with reliability show up.

Yeah, I read that too. It's usually what someone heard someone say that they read someone wrote on the Internet.

 

[MechAg94]

I have shot 4 or 5 different M1A's (not all mine) and never had a problem. I don't put a great number of rounds down range, but still never had an issue.

Problem children always get the most attention.

I wouldn't mind trying out an FAL or SCAR, but I have a good bit invested in two M14 rifles with plenty of magazines. I doubt I would change much at this point.

 

[d2wing]

As far as the DPMS that you have, it sounds like the action could be too fast due to overgassing, or the extractor weak. I would try a heavier buffer to slow it down and also consider a BCM extractor.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks to all, THR is the Best

Thanks, I got the M1A SOCOM 2.
It shoots great, and eats all types of 308 ammo w/o complaint.
It's a tad heavy, but I like the style, compact but potent package.
I may remove some of the rails to lighten it up.
Also got an Aeropercision AR10, but it is very picky about ammo, and FTE FTF/Jams alot. Very accurate and smooth when it does shoot though.
The smith who put it together says he will adjust some things and loosen up the tolerance a little, and says he can do so w/o affecting accuracy much.

 

[Crashbox]

This thread is most relevant to me as I'm also researching for a semi-auto rifle chambered in 7.62x51/.308 Winchester. I also find it difficult to remain objective in my analyses, but that's just me I suppose.

A +1 to THR being the best. Couldn't agree more.

 

[M1key]

Owned several FALs, an Hk, Cetme, several Springfield M1As (including one in 243), Garands (including a Navy Match 308), and Saigas in 308 over the past 35 years.

Today I still have two FALs (sold one last year to a friend) and one Saiga 308. All the FALs, the HK, Cetme, and Saigas worked flawlessly. The M1As did not.

I also recommend you get a good bolt gun in 308.

M

 

[Llama Bob]

As far as battle-tested 7.62/.308 ARs, or at least those adopted by someone's military for combat use, there's LMT's MWS which the Brits currently have in service. It's built on the MRP platform, so the user gets switch-barrel capability to run other .308-derivative cartridges (e.g., 260Rem, 7mm-08).

I have the so-called "slickside" variant, the 7.62 LM8. Great shooter, flawless reliability. Still, it gets heavy once you start adding items to it.

I've got the regular railed version, as well as an MRP for a baby brother. I agree these are the "It just works" option for a .308 battle rifle. If you get the Mike Rock barrel version you're pretty much guaranteed sub-MOA accuracy too.

They're heavy, but large caliber auto DMR/sniper rifles are always heavy.

 

[barnbwt]

Box-fed semi-auto 308 rundown;
If you want a rifle that's the coolest in Greatest Generation-era form with iron sights; M14 for its history and tenuous Garand connections
If you want what the M14 was supposed to be; Beretta BM59
If you want the greatest battle implement ever devised by the CMP; M1 Garand conversion
If you want a highly impressive tack driver; AR15 in 308 from some high-end maker that sells accurized platforms
If a modest man with modest ambitions or Johnny Cash; PSA or similar "budget" AR10 assembled "one, piece at a time..."
If you want a highly impressive-looking tack driver to woo the ladies; The same AR with a bunch of junk hung on a quad rail and a complex stock (warning: rails currently passe --use MLOK/keymod or feel a fool)
If you want a highly impressive-looking tack driver to woo the guys; The same AR with a piston conversion and vestigial angled foregrip
If you want to ride the cutting edge of 1970's technology adjusted for inflation; SCAR
If you want something unstoppable but with no other redeeming qualities; PTR/G3/CETME
If you want something with no redeeming qualities; Century CETME
If you are a hipster who's into cool swag that the mainstream is too dumb to appreciate; MAS 49/56 conversion
If you are a Fudd, friendly or otherwise; Remington R25
If you are an 8ft tall Ubermensch with a (local) Swiss bank account; SIG AMT or STGW57/PE57 (if only 7.5ft tall, see HK G3)
If you want something boringly functional and adequate; FAL
If you want the same thing but twice the size/weight for no increase in capability; FN-DA1
If you want an elegant weapon from a more civilized age; FN49
If you are a cheap SOB at heart and vulnerable to Ban Panic; Saiga 308
If you are a rich SOB; Galil, Daewoo, WA2000, SVD, PSG1, HK416 or other unobtainables not listed
If you want an accurate platform built on a concept suited for anything but that role; VEPR or new-production M76, as well as PSLs and M77
If you are talented at catching Smurfs and melting them into gold; Kel Tec RFB (maybe not so much now; RDBs are around, but still expensive)
If you are just a filthy show-off; reproduction M1918 BAR, HCAR, or FG42
If you want a 1MOA repeater that takes 5,10,20 round mags, is set up for optics-only bench/blind shooting, and costs an arm but no leg; FNAR/SXAR
If you are bored with buying guns, think about building many of the above and gain a whole appreciation (or hatred) for your 'favorite' platform

I'll update when Desert Tech, Radom, CZ, Kel Tec, and Beretta come out with the 308 versions of the MDR, MSBS, CZ805, RDB, and ARX. I also need to add the Ruger & whatever SIG is calling an AR10, I suppose.

TCB