M44 for Bear Defense?

[M.E.Eldridge]

I have a buddy who is going on a bow hunt for bear in Alaska and he wants a rifle that he can use for self defense if he has a run in with an angry bear. He doesn't have much money so I recommend he get a caliber mil-surp rifle. I figure if it can kill a man it can kill a bear with a well placed close range shot. He likes the Yugo Mausers and the M44s. Being experienced with the M44 I told him I thought it was a good choice, but I would consult others about the problem. So which do you think would be more adiquite for his trip:

1. Yugo Mauser
2. M44 Carbine or
3.A different choice under $150.00(it must be a repeater of some style, no Muzzleloaders)

 

[George S.]

Unless you can absolutely guarantee that an M44 will fire (and eject) as fast as you can work the bolt, I can't see using a milsurp rifle for protection against bears. And you only have 5 rounds available. I like my M44 and 91/30 but I have spent hours at my bench trying to get all of the old lacquer out of the chamber so that spent cases can eject by simply pulling the bolt back and not having to pick up a hammer.

Close range against a moving bear can mean you only have a few seconds to get shots off. Even coming across a bear and startling it may only get you a few seconds. No time to be screwing around with a stuck case or working a bolt.

I would go with the largest caliber revolver you can shoot accurately assuming that you can carry a handgun at the time. A minimum of .44MAG or 454 Casull or the 480 Ruger would be good choices for firepower. With a revolver, you at least have a chance to pull it, aim and fire and not have to worry about a safety. Try fiddling with the bolt safety on the M44 in a panic situation!!

 

[MatthewVanitas]

He can afford to go on an Alaska bear hunt, but "he doesn't have much money"?

I'd imagine that a rifle would really get in his way while trying to carry his bow around. If he has to sling his rifle across his back (which would still probably interfere with his draw), the odds of being able to deploy it while being charged by a bear (within arrow-range, no less) sound dismal.

You can buy a .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk (lighter than the Super Redhawk) for mid-$300s on www.gunbroker.com or www.auctionarms.com . That would seem to be a reasonable investment on a solid and versatile revolver.

-MV (no, I don't hunt bears, but just trying to apply common sense to the issue)

 

[JamisJockey]

Does he have a shotgun? If so, put a pistol grip on it.

 

[M.E.Eldridge]

He can afford to go on an Alaska bear hunt, but "he doesn't have much money"?

I'd imagine that a rifle would really get in his way while trying to carry his bow around. If he has to sling his rifle across his back (which would still probably interfere with his draw), the odds of being able to deploy it while being charged by a bear (within arrow-range, no less) sound dismal.

You can buy a .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk (lighter than the Super Redhawk) for mid-$300s on www.gunbroker.com or www.auctionarms.com . That would seem to be a reasonable investment on a solid and versatile revolver.

-MV (no, I don't hunt bears, but just trying to apply common sense to the issue)

He doesn't have much money left after the costs of booking the hunt, clothing, calls, lodging stuff like that. He's been saving for quite some time just to be able to go. He has about $160 left after all other expenses, if he wants to keep his budget.

I don't know much at all about bears. The most dangerous animal I've hunted was a bobcat that got close behind while I was calling. The thing was getting ready to jump at my back, or at least thats what it sounded like when I turned around and scared it off.

 

[colt.45]

shotgun

i recomend using a 12 guage shotgun with slugs, you can get a brand new shotgun from walmart for around $200.

 

[gripper]

Its beats throwing rocks at'em(M44),but I gottta concur; a large frame top end loaded revolver in the most effective caliber you can shoot well under stress is a better bet...although the spike bayonet might let you punch a 6th hole in the tusker ...right before he rips you up!

 

[Bob R]

I have a buddy who is going on a bow hunt for bear in Alaska and he wants a rifle that he can use for self defense if he has a run in with an angry bear.

Well, I imagine after poking an arrow in a bear, it WILL be angery. If this is a guided trip he should have a guide along. If it isn't a guided trip, he should have a guide along. Rather than get a gun, I would get a guide, who will be armed as needed.

In the wilds with bears, humans are just a soft and crunchy treat.

Did I cover the guide thing already?

bob

 

[vynx]

If he is really limited to $160 --- I think the best he can do is a used 12 gauge and load it with slugs - if it has a longer barrel he should cut it doen to 18.5 inches since a slug isn't made to shoot thru a modified or full choked gun.

Plus, he'd have a decent survival gun.

 

[itgoesboom]

I figure if it can kill a man it can kill a bear with a well placed close range shot.

I am sure that you could kill a 1000lbs Grizzly with a .22lr, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it.

Forget the idea of "if it can kill a man, it can kill a bear". Man is small, thin skinned, can't run fast, and doesn't have giant claws and teeth.

Imagine this:

A rottweiler that can run 35mph in the woods, can smell almost as well as a German Shepherd, oh, and instead of weighing 100lbs, it weighs 800-1000lbs with thick skin and thick layers of fat.

That is what I would compare a Grizzly to, and I have only seen them in the zoos.

I.G.B.

 

[Willyboi]

M44

Crazy Canes offers M44 on Ebang.com sometimes for 35$ bucks. I bought 2 for under $100 with FFL transfers involved. Yah..they both needed work but for that price you could cannibalize one and have a fully functional one for bear defence! If the one shot doesn't kill'em the flash will mak'em think twice....Or if all his "Prayers Fail" drop down for the cavalry charge, Civil War bayonet style!!!!! Man the options, the options!!!

 

[Cosmoline]

Mosins are great for bear defense. I've carried an array of firearms on the trails, and Mosins are by far my favorite. They are extremely rugged, powerful enough and inexpensive.

Also, the safety is absolutely positive and strong enough to withstand a fall, so it's possible to carry them cocked and locked. I would not carry a modern hunting rifle this way, as the safety is fairly weak and only locks out the trigger--not the bolt.

7.62x54R SP's in the 180-200 grain range are sufficient medicine for brown bear and more than enough for black bear or cougar. They hit plenty hard.

I'm not sure where people are getting this crazy notion that you can't aim and fire a bolt-action rifle fast enough to stop a bear. Most stopped brown bear charges in this state over the past century have, in fact, been stopped with bolt action rifles in the .30'06 power range. And iron sights will serve you better at close range than a scope.

a large frame top end loaded revolver in the most effective caliber you can shoot well under stress is a better bet...

No way. No way at all. A wheelgun is fine as a backup, but it is VASTLY INFERIOR for bear defense than a carbine in the .30'06 class. The shoulder-fired weapon is many times more powerful, uses more effective bullets and is orders of magnitude easier to aim under stress than a handgun.

Close range against a moving bear can mean you only have a few seconds to get shots off. Even coming across a bear and startling it may only get you a few seconds. No time to be screwing around with a stuck case or working a bolt.

Which is why you go cocked and locked, sling it over the front muzzle down, and use a Cosmoline quick release:



The M-44 or 91/30 is great bear medicine on a budget.

 

[WillBrayJr]

He's going to have to spend alittle money whether he likes or not. A Remington 870 Express Mossberg 500 Persuader 12ga loaded Winchester Partition Gold slugs. A Romanian AK-47 with 30rds of 7.62X39mm will work. A used Ruger or Smith in 44mag will do the trick too.

If he's going alone, tell him to haul @$$ up a tree and hunt from there. Believe it or not this will give him the advantage as he can stuff the muzzle down the bear's throat and pull the trigger.

 

[Preacherman]

An M44 will certainly be "enough gun" for a bear, although it may not have the charge-stopping punch of a heavier caliber. I'd certainly put it in the .30-'06 class. However, there are two additional considerations:

1. He will need to practice with the rifle until he can put five rapid, accurate shots on target in minimal time. A bear who's mad at him won't be standing still! He should ideally be able to get off five aimed shots in three or four seconds, and hit a teacup-size target with every round at 25 yards. That takes quite a bit of practice in rapid bolt manipulation, re-acquiring the sight picture, etc. Those who know the recoil of an M44 will agree that this isn't as easy as it sounds!

2. I certainly would not use milsurp ammo for such an encounter. It's fully jacketed, for a start, which means it'll punch a nice clean hole all the way through the target, but not transfer much energy. Also, it's great for plinking and practice, but may not be 100% reliable (50-year-old, or older, primers and powder are not always in great condition!). So, while he can practice with the old stuff, he'll need to buy a couple of boxes of high-quality hunting ammo and zero his rifle for it.

I'm not sure if a bayonet is legal while hunting... might want to check out the regulations where he'll be. I'd remove it anyway, as an unnecessary impediment.

 

[Willyboi]

M44

Maybe he could call it a "Spear" at that point!!

 

[WillBrayJr]

I think penetration would be better. Easier to reach vital organs. Thats why I recommended the AK-47. However I truly think the Buddy System is the best line of defense. Your buddy's job is to strictly watch your back while hunting.

 

[M.E.Eldridge]

I contacted him for more info via email and he replied saying that the defense gun was intended as a stocking gun. His plan: After he arrows the bear and it runs off he'll wait a few seconds, get off his stand, equip the rifle, ready the rifle and go after the bear. He hired a guide who has an inline muzzleloader, so he wanted his own back up gun.

 

[WillBrayJr]

Waiting a few seconds is a big mistake, tell him to wait atleast 30 minutes before approaching the bear. After the wait tell him to get just enough and put a few slugs in the bear's sckull.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[armoredman]

The Mosin sticky bolt will not be a problem if he follows the normal guidlines of decosmoing the chamber, AND, uses brass cased hunting ammo. The sticky bolt comes from cosmo in the chamber melting with the laquer on surplus cases.
Milspec ammo is not allowable for hunting in any state I know of, which doesn't say much. I know it isn't in AZ, but our bears are kinda scrawny.

If I was going hunting for bear, I would NOT be doing it with a bow. More like a STuG IIIG....

 

[Cosmoline]

I think penetration would be better. Easier to reach vital organs. Thats why I recommended the AK-47. However I truly think the Buddy System is the best line of defense. Your buddy's job is to strictly watch your back while hunting.

7.62x39 has more penetration than 7.63x54R? That's news to the universe

 

[Langenator]

Alaska law requires that all non-residents hunting big game have a guide.

My guess-the guide will have...wait for it...something like a Marlin Guide Gun, in something like .45-70.

Your buddy should call the guide service and confirm this.

 

[Cosmoline]

The Mosin sticky bolt will not be a problem if he follows the normal guidlines of decosmoing the chamber, AND, uses brass cased hunting ammo.

Also, if you select a matching parts Mosin in good condition the bolt should not be sticking in the first place. None of my Mosins have sticky bolts.

 

[stevelyn]

You've supplied the missing info. Alaska law requires non-residents hunting brown bear or mt goats to hire a guide.
A guide would have a back up gun to protect their client regardless of what they were shooting.
+1 one on the 30 minute wait. I've known several guys that have arrowed bears up here and even in cases where the kill took place on open tundra or tree stand and visual contact wasn't lost they still remained on stand for 20-30 minutes before approaching.

As for your friend's guide, no sane person in the business of looking out for their client's safety on a hunt would be using a muzzleloader in-line or otherwise as a back up weapon.
How much research did you friend do on guide services when he was planning his hunt?
Does he have references?
What is the cost compared to other guide services?
How and where does he advertise?
Where is he hunting?
What services is the guide providing as part of the package for the hunt?
Is he registered as a guide or assistant guide in the State of Alaska?
If so, which master guide is he affiliated with?
Is the master guide okay with the practices?

I don't know about you, but the little cop voice in my head tells me there is something not quite right about this guide or his operation.

 

[ceetee]

He hired a guide who has an inline muzzleloader, so he wanted his own back up gun.

His paid guide is going to use a single-shot muzzle-loader as a guide gun?

 

[Rockrivr1]

So if I have this right your friend is going to wait a minute or two after he shoots a grizzly with an arrow before he goes looking for it, once he shoots the grizzly he will "equip" his rifle and his guide is going to be carrying a single shot muzzleloader as their protection.

Um, before your friend leaves say goodbye. He may not be coming back!