M855 ban in reg already

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Saw a news clip from yesterday. White House spokesman Josh Earnest states: This is a gun ban! Admits it's about banning the AR15! In a statement he says clearly that this is about getting rid of the AR15. Ban the ammo if you can't ban the gun, is clearly the plan at the W.H.!
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Who is smoking what??

At the very worst, this is an attempt to ban the M855 cartridge. How is that a ban the AR15? I don't think I've shot that green tipped ammo in either of my ARs. Now I know a lot of people do, and if this ban passes, they will have to adjust, but there is a ton of other bullet choices out there to choose from and the market will fill the hole where the M855 used to be.
 
That is part of the video. The full video I saw is no longer posted on my news feed. At the end of the full video, Mr.Earnest said a lot more than the edited versions I found in my search for it so far. If you can find the full video, he made it much more clear as to what the ban was about.As you can see, the YouTube video is very edited. BUT I will keep looking for the full video & post a link if I can find it.
 
There are several parts of this issue that really confuse me.
Almost any 5.56mm ammo will go through Kevlar body armor. The only real reason for the ATF to do this is to kick the hornet's nest. Why would the ATF do this? The probability is that M855 will not be banned (public outrage, NRA, etc.) Even if it is, there are many other types of 5.56 out there, some that are just as effective at going through Kevlar.

By threatening to ban anything related to the AR-15, the ATF only induces fear buying (go and look at some online retailers, many are out of stock on all kinds of 5.56). This only increases the amount of ammo that is owned, which is completely contradictory to both the DOJ and Potus' agenda.

The ATF could want to keep the market agitated in order to keep out new gun owners, but shooting is so broad that this isn't a very effective way to do so.

Now that we are winding down our presence abroad the ATF could also be interested in keeping cheap surplus ammo out of the hands of the public, but it seems there would be easier ways to do this.

The ATF could also be trying to make the shooting community and the gun lobby war weary by constantly keeping everyone on edge.

I'm not too sure on any of these though...
 
Still 32% of 350 million is a lot of people (112 million). There are many different branches of shooting which is why THR has its forums divided up into subcategories. One of theses categories of gun owners are people who own .223 and/or 5.56 NATO weapons. ARs and other semi-auto rifles make up a rather small portion of guns in the US.
That is all I meant by that bit.
 
Almost any 5.56mm ammo will go through Kevlar body armor. The only real reason for the ATF to do this is to kick the hornet's nest. Why would the ATF do this? The probability is that M855 will not be banned (public outrage, NRA, etc.) Even if it is, there are many other types of 5.56 out there, some that are just as effective at going through Kevlar.
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I've seen some theories online (no idea if based on reading between the lines in ATF statements, or just deductive reasoning) that this is basically the ATF essentially saying "that attempt to bypass SBR laws with Sig Braces seeming smart, now?"

Beyond that, complete agreement, soft body armor + 5.56mm ammo of any sort = hole in body armor. LEOs are aware of that, and an M855 ban doesn't do anything to increase officer safety on the street. But police safety is the closest thing ATF can manage to "we're doing it for the children" . . .
 
HorseSoldier said:
Beyond that, complete agreement, soft body armor + 5.56mm ammo of any sort = hole in body armor. LEOs are aware of that, and an M855 ban doesn't do anything to increase officer safety on the street. But police safety is the closest thing ATF can manage to "we're doing it for the children" . . .
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Exactly. It's an excuse, nothing else, and an extremely lame one at that. I'm not aware of any supersonic, centerfire rifle cartridge that won't penetrate soft body armor. The cops know this and the ATF knows it. They're just straight up lying through their teeth to the American people in order to advance an agenda.
 
I am beginning to be of the opinion that this is one of two things: Either a "tit for tat" in response to the Sig brace deal or, far more concerning, the opening move in an effort to restrict or ban nearly all centerfire rifle ammunition.

Anymore, I'm not sure which I believe most, that oiur government is a bunch of whining weasels or that they are a bunch of evil geniuses.
 
According to some rumors I heard at a recent gun show, Texas ATF agents were walking through telling folks they couldn't sell any XM855 or SS109. I wonder if this is true or not and if sellers were private or dealers?

Anyone from TX verify this?

M
 
BUT I will keep looking for the full video & post a link if I can find it.
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So, this elusive video has completely disappeared off the internet? That seems....odd. I've yet to find it myself, and I've given it a good go. I have yet to find ANY evidence he actually stated, verbatim, that this was an effort to ban the AR-15, or any such thing beyond, at WORST, a ban on M855. WHile an M855 ban is certainly worthy of being upset about, the masses would be up in arms...maybe literally..if there was any validlity to the AR-15 ban statement.
 
1911 guy said:
I am beginning to be of the opinion that this is one of two things: Either a "tit for tat" in response to the Sig brace deal or, far more concerning, the opening move in an effort to restrict or ban nearly all centerfire rifle ammunition.



Anymore, I'm not sure which I believe most, that oiur government is a bunch of whining weasels or that they are a bunch of evil geniuses.
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Go with the evil geniuses. They are all Ivy League educated. Obama graduated from Harvard and many of his cabinet members and advisors from Oxford across the pond. It's all part of the plan and the masses buy into it as long as they are promised some short term compensation.
 
I was thinking the same thing as Tirod in that the "mistake" was someones way of alerting the public from inside that this was going down like it or not.:fire:

It seems more and more of the general public is starting to wise up and show distrust with our government and its misplaced policies. I see us heading towards a costly "correction" to politics in general and firearms in particular.
 
This is slightly off topic, but do any of you think that it would be possible with the Congress that we have now to pass a law insuring that all ATF staff were shooters, or shot recreationally on a regular basis? That would solve a lot of the issues we worry about.

I am beginning to be of the opinion that this is one of two things: Either a "tit for tat" in response to the Sig brace deal or, far more concerning, the opening move in an effort to restrict or ban nearly all centerfire rifle ammunition.
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They could also be interested in getting the gun owning community to be as armed as possible in the event of a second civil war. They could be doing this by inducing panic buying. More guns and ammo = bloodier war. Just a thought
 
Erik M said:
To quote Colonel Potter, "horse hockey". Did they guy telling you those rumors offer to sell you some M855 "under the table" for about $1 a round?
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Nope. I was selling some, not him.

My point was, if banned from sales will private transactions still be legal?

M
 
ARs and other semi-auto rifles make up a rather small portion of guns in the US.
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The AR platform has been the fastest selling rifle for the past several years. There are literally an estimated 3.3 million of them in civilian hands presently, a bulk of them likely bought in the last decade(over 2 million of them were made between 2000-2010. Estimates are the AR accounts for 20% of all guns made in the US presently. If you go for the bigger picture of all "military style" semi-autos, we're talking in the area of nearly 8-9 million. These aren't really tiny numbers we'ret aling here....they represent a significant percentage of gun owners.


This is slightly off topic, but do any of you think that it would be possible with the Congress that we have now to pass a law insuring that all ATF staff were shooters, or shot recreationally on a regular basis? That would solve a lot of the issues we worry about.
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Given the vast implications of employment law, such a requirement would be all but impossible to enact and enforce. Can you think of another job where your "hobby" or leisure time activity of choice played more of a role in your hiring than your actual qualifications or ability to do the job? I think we'd stand a better chance of disbanding the ATF than we'd have of getting such a law passed. I want people hired based on abilities, talents, etc....not hobbies


They could also be interested in getting the gun owning community to be as armed as possible in the event of a second civil war. They could be doing this by inducing panic buying. More guns and ammo = bloodier war. Just a thought
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In what scenario does inducing your enemy to drastically increase his or her supply of weapons seem like a tacticially sound idea? "Lets got to war with Iran, but first, lets make sure they're fully supplied and READY to go to war".......... You see the problem with your logic??? Most people would rightfully assume that the FEWER weapons your opposition has, the easier victory will come.

Can't say I can get behind either of your ideas here, as they are both pretty far removed from the reality of the situation as I see it.
 
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Given the vast implications of employment law, such a requirement would be all but impossible to enact and enforce. Can you think of another job where your "hobby" or leisure time activity of choice played more of a role in your hiring than your actual qualifications or ability to do the job? I think we'd stand a better chance of disbanding the NRA than we'd have of getting such a law passed. I want people hired based on abilities, talents, etc....not hobbies
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Yeah, this idea would never pass a test case in the courts.

Plus, just because someone shoots skeet or competes in 3 Gun or whatever else, doesn't mean they're guaranteed not to throw their hobby under the bus if/when the powers that be say it's time to drop the hammer. My hobby vs my mortgage and my two kids in college and everything else . . . some will vote with their feet, some will not.
 
Davek1977 said:
In what scenario does inducing your enemy to drastically increase his or her supply of weapons seem like a tacticially sound idea? "Lets got to war with Iran, but first, lets make sure they're fully supplied and READY to go to war".......... You see the problem with your logic??? Most people would rightfully assume that the FEWER weapons your opposition has, the easier victory will come.
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Doesn't make sense at all to supply your enemies with weapons. Yet, the US government has made a regular habit of doing just that. I agree with you that I don't think this is what the ATF is trying to do. I'm just pointing out that that particular line of logic doen't apply when it comes to the US gov.
 
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