Machine Gun Case

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yesit'sloaded

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http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...29654520071014



By Matthew Bigg

ATLANTA (Reuters) - Federal agents arrested Grammy Award-winning rapper T.I. on Saturday on charges of buying illegal machine guns, hours before he was due to star at a major hip hop awards ceremony.

Agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) said they arrested the rapper in Atlanta as he took delivery of three machine guns and two silencers.

"This convicted felon allegedly was trying to add several machine guns to an already large and entirely illegal arsenal of guns," David E. Nahmias, U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia, said in a statement.

"Thanks to the good and quick work of ATF, he is now in custody and his firearms have been seized," Nahmias said.

T.I. was convicted of a violation of the Georgia Controlled Substances Act in 1998 and given seven years probation, the Department of Justice said.

It is a federal offense for a convicted felon to have someone else purchase firearms on their behalf, Justice said.

T.I., born Clifford Harris, was arrested at 2.30 p.m. EDT, the day he was due to perform at the BET Networks awards ceremony in Atlanta.

He had been nominated for nine awards at the annual show -- more than any other artist. They included the prestigious MVP award for the best artist in the business as well as best CD of the year and best lyricist of the year. His failure to appear overshadowed one of the biggest events on the hip hop calendar and disappointed hundreds of fans who turned up to watch the elite of the hip hop industry.

Many fans said they wanted to catch a glimpse of T.I. more than any other star.

In the event, he won only CD of the year, an award he shared with the rapper Common for a separate album. Lil Wayne won the MVP award.

T.I. spent two weeks at No. 1 on the U.S. pop chart this summer with his album "T.I. vs T.I.P.," his second chart topper within 18 months. The album sold 468,000 units in its first week, making it one of the biggest debuts of the year.

The 27-year-old Atlanta native, who won two Grammy awards in February and was nominated for two others, is also co-CEO of Grand Hustle Records.

T.I. was arrested after an undercover operation by ATF agents that started on October 2 when ATF agents learned an individual was seeking to buy machine guns without registering them, the Justice Department said in a statement.

That individual, who turned out to be a bodyguard for the artist, was arrested on Wednesday after paying $2,200 for three machine guns, two silencers and a pistol.

He said he was buying the guns for T.I., and with the blessing of ATF agents arranged to deliver them to T.I.'s house on Saturday.

"Harris (T.I.) then agreed to meet and took possession of the machine guns this afternoon. He now faces serious federal charges and a potentially long prison sentence," the statement said, adding that T.I. would appear in court on Monday...Three other firearms were found in the vehicle T.I. was driving and during a search of his home in College Park six other firearms were found a bedroom closet.

(Additional reporting by Dean Goodman in Los Angeles)
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Could Jesse Jackson and his buddy Sharpton get the machine gun ban overturned by turning it into a civil rights issue to get this rapper off the hook? I know it is ironic and very unlikely but I can see how it could happen. People marching in the streets for their 2nd amendment rights, saying how the $200 tax is unlawful and discriminates like a poll tax, why didn't we think of doing it from a civil rights point of view...or did I just do that?
 
That individual, who turned out to be a bodyguard for the artist, was arrested on Wednesday after paying $2,200 for three machine guns, two silencers and a pistol.

Again, if something sounds too good to be true...

Where in the world did the ATF get $2,200 as a price for two autos, two silencers, and a pistol? Good thing the buyer was too stupid to see the value of what he was buying.

Later,
Chrome...
 
Probably went after him because he is a successful African- American NOT because he is a felon. :mad:
 
If I were to do the same thing I'd be arrested/charged too. There's no racial discrimination in this case, I think the ATF is pretty even handed in their thuggery, but I suspect they will try to claim there is. But it certainly could be useful to use the case for overturning the MG ban but I think it unlikely until/unless the SCOTUS rules in the Heller case on what the 2nd protects. Maybe it could be used for the case against the ban depending on how Heller goes.
 
I don't the fact that he's black, a rapper, or has money is relevant.

He's a felon, and I don't think felons should be able to own any kind of firearms. Too bad, T.I. is a pretty good artist..
 
Could Jesse Jackson and his buddy Sharpton get the machine gun ban overturned by turning it into a civil rights issue to get this rapper off the hook? I know it is ironic and very unlikely but I can see how it could happen. People marching in the streets for their 2nd amendment rights, saying how the $200 tax is unlawful and discriminates like a poll tax, why didn't we think of doing it from a civil rights point of view...or did I just do that?

I've already argued for it as such. Gun control disproportionally disarms those that are most vulnerable in society - the old, the women, the ethnic minorities, and those of alternative sexualities. As such, it is indeed a civil rights issue.
 
Where in the world did the ATF get $2,200 as a price for two autos, two silencers, and a pistol? Good thing the buyer was too stupid to see the value of what he was buying.

Suppressors are worth maybe $150 each, a Mac-10 is what, $300 bucks tops?

I'd say $2,200 is high for illegal junk like that.
 
Not exactly, I was posing this as a legal question while the other thread was meant as a general discussion about a popular music figure being arrested on gun charges. If the mods want to merge I don't have a problem.
 
Originally posted by FieroCDSP: That's an idea. I like it. Also, it seems the ATF has done something usefull for once.

Just like at Ruby Ridge and Waco right? What did they do that was useful? Dont you feel gun-laws are against the 2nd Amendment? Or is it ok when it is someone you dislike?

Originally posted by yesit'sloaded: Could Jesse Jackson and his buddy Sharpton get the machine gun ban overturned by turning it into a civil rights issue to get this rapper off the hook? I know it is ironic and very unlikely but I can see how it could happen. People marching in the streets for their 2nd amendment rights, saying how the $200 tax is unlawful and discriminates like a poll tax, why didn't we think of doing it from a civil rights point of view...or did I just do that?
Can I ask why you specifically chose BLACK civil rights leaders? People who fight for the rights of BLACK people? I dont necessarily agree with them but I do believe that they feel they are doing the right thing. So why did you try to make this a race issue? Do you have a problem with Black civil rights leaders?

Why doesnt the NRA help him as well? We need GOA and some of the Class 3groups to come out and help as well.

Originally posted by LAR-15: Probably went after him because he is a successful African- American NOT because he is a felon.
Probably the most likely reason. Why didnt they go after Gordon Libby for posession of guns? I have heard that him and his wife have a large collection.
 
Why didnt they go after Gordon Libby for posession of guns? I have heard that him and his wife have a large collection.

He used to joke that he couldn't own any guns but that Mrs Liddy had quite a nice collection.

I've since read that he has had his rights restored after many court proceedings.
 
Can I ask why you specifically chose BLACK civil rights leaders? People who fight for the rights of BLACK people?

I don't think he was being racist in his reply. I do think he was trying/hoping/dreaming about a force that is currently AGAINST us to now fight FOR us (maybe unknowingly) by defending this popular hip hop singer. They would be on a different front than we have been pushing and with a different angle to prove how infringement on the 2nd effects more than just "gun toting, bird hunting idiots".

Kinda like how Pink Pistols are on our "side" but for a different demo graph than the stereotype. :)

I do think it would be awesome to have a new group fighting for the most basic of rights for all of us with a particular angle to use to a benefit. This one would be for black felons if I.T. could get one rolling.

Justin
 
Can I ask why you specifically chose BLACK civil rights leaders? People who fight for the rights of BLACK people? I dont necessarily agree with them but I do believe that they feel they are doing the right thing. So why did you try to make this a race issue? Do you have a problem with Black civil rights leaders?

Gun laws in this country are some of the most racist laws on our books.

Black civil rights leaders however have entirely ignored that fact for years, as well as the NAACP and other organizations.

In fact, any time the 2A has come up these folks come down firmly on the side of the anti's. Why would these people fight so hard for civil rights but ignore one VERY important civil right?

Why is that?
 
Not only that, but they also have political clout. Currently we are portrayed in the media as being a bunch of white redneck gun nuts. If a popular figure in the black community, in this case the rapper TI, was to be thrown in jail over a crime that has no victim, such as...buying two machine guns, then we gain the ability to merge force with the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton coalition. If we continue to do what we have been doing from our side, and they pursue the racial/socioeconomic discrimination of having to pay for a right granted in the Constitution, we might be able to make all of these infringements collapse like a house of cards.
 
I don't the fact that he's black, a rapper, or has money is relevant.
It should not be, but race, celebrity, and money count for a lot in this country. And in this case, they are all in his favor.
 
why depend on Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? Why not do it yourself?
Because I am a white male that has no political clout whatsoever. Jesse Jackson and his followers are well known for standing up for causes that discriminate against others. He also has valuable ties to the civil rights movement and organizations like the NAACP which probably would not even return a call from "some white guy wanting us to support gun rights", compared to Jesse saying "a rising star in the hip hop scene is being railroaded into federal prison on unconstitutional firearms laws." I like some of T.I.'s stuff, and I actually know one of his relatives. Maybe it wasn't the brightest idea, but we want machine guns just as much as he did.
 
hope this does not get this closed, if it is over the line, "mods" feel free to delete it.
the reason that J.J. & A.S. & the naacp are against any real freedoom for those they claim to support, is that they are race pimps and make their living off the continued "suffering" of those they claim to represent.
steve.
 
I'm guessing that these "MG's" were cheap because ..

They were created after the ban. Someone did a little home gunsmithing or ??? and converted semi's into fa's. Second guess would be stolen guns.

"when ATF agents learned an individual was seeking to buy machine guns without registering them,"

I don't know anyone who would allow their FA guns to be sole this way ... as they would likely attract attention to themselves.

Really doubt that a registered MG went thru this channel, but what do I know?
 
Probably went after him because he is a successful African- American NOT because he is a felon.

I hope you're kidding, being a rapper isnt exactly a lofty goal. What happened to kids wanting to be doctors, lawyers, astronauts, etc when they grow up?

It should not be, but race, celebrity, and money count for a lot in this country. And in this case, they are all in his favor.

Theres no guarantee that this clown is still wealthy... Rappers, pro athletes, and other "new money" types are not typically know to make the most sound financial decisions. I'd be inclined to believe that "T.I" has all this money tied up in Escalades with 22" rims, gold teeth, and flashy houses with tons of plasma tv's, and new basketball shoes for himself and his homeboys. I seriously doubt he's very familiar with brokerage firms and mutual funds.
 
Those machineguns are cheap because they aren't subject to taxes, legal goat-rope, and fixed supply as transferable ones are. 2200 sounds about right.
 
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