Machinegun questions

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Oolong

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I was looking into getting a HK g3, because why not, and decided to check if it's one of the few guns that can be found in full auto flavor. I found out there are 3 kinds with it, Trigger group, auto sear, and lower.

So i was wondering is it

A. is it legal to put a machinegun auto sear or trigger group into a semi auto lower still?

B. legal to move said HK auto sear and trigger group into other compatible HK rifles?
 
If the sear / trigger pack has been registered as a machine gun, yes and yes


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On the federal level, the auto sear or trigger pack can be the registrable item.

Here in Virginia, the host gun is what has to be registered with the State Police as the machine gun.
 
On the federal level, the auto sear or trigger pack can be the registrable item.

Here in Virginia, the host gun is what has to be registered with the State Police as the machine gun.
But you can register multiple hosts as machine guns, no?
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-295/

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_MachineGun.shtm
MACHINE GUN MAKE AND MODEL, CALIBER, MODEL NUMBER, SERIAL NUMBER (self-explanatory) Machine guns modified by the installation of a sear kit must be registered. Registration is not required for the kit itself.
 
So in virginia a auto sear can only be installed in a already registered machinegun i.e. you'd be paying extra for full auto?

and what affect does that have on the great commonwealth of pennsylvania?
 
So in virginia a auto sear can only be installed in a already registered machinegun i.e. you'd be paying extra for full auto?

VA MG registration doesn't require an additional $200 NFA tax: see Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-295.


and what affect does that have on the great commonwealth of pennsylvania?

Absolutely nothing. However you didn't mention what state you are in, and VA, while allowing machine guns, has quirks that other permissive states don't, so it was worth bringing up.

For PA, see 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 908(a), (b)(1)
 
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It says in PA that i can own select fires so long as it's in compliance with the NFA, so would that include federally registered auto sears?

also does anyone know if it's possible to use any HK auto sear in any HK rifle, and if so can you use the one sear in multiple rifles and just have them all listed as machine guns?
 
Does PA require you to register machine guns? If not, I'm not sure what you mean by "have them all listed as machine guns".

You can run an HK sear in any compatible Hk pattern roller lock gun.
 
The real pitfall with registered sears in HK firearms is what happens when you remove the "machine gun" from the gun.

Take for example having a 18" barreled HK-91, a 9" barreled MP-5 (with stock), and one registered sear. Only one of those two guns will be a machine gun at any given time, since you only have the one sear.

If the HK-91 is set up with the sear, and your MP-5 is set up as a semi-auto, you have a machine gun AND a short barreled rifle. Two stamps.

If the HK-91 is set up as a semi-auto, and the MP-5 is set up with the sear, you have a rifle and a machine gun. One stamp.

Confused yet?
 
Well, in theory so long as the HK's i have registered as machineguns aren't in working order (separated receivers) without the auto sear, im fine.

mind you, i don't know this for sure, but there's no reason to check since i don't have the 30 grand for a auto sear yet anyway.

as for PA machine gun registry this is all i've come up with http://smartgunlaws.org/machine-gunsautomatic-firearms-in-pennsylvania/

Pennsylvania law prohibits the possession of machine guns, unless the machine gun was registered under the National Firearms Act, or falls within some other exception.1 Note that the National Firearms Act generally allows private citizens to register and possess machine guns so long as they were manufactured prior to May 19, 1986, and are not prohibited by state or local law.
 
OK, I'm still a little confused that you keep saying things like "HK's I have registered as machine guns".

As far as I can tell, PA has no requirement to register machine guns, or any guns.

When you register a sear or a pack, that is the one registered machine gun. Any host weapon you run the registered sear in is a machine gun while the sear is in it, but it is not separately registered, and may be returned to its title I state at any time. As pdsmith indicated, you have to be careful not to inadvertently make and NFA weapon such as an AOW or SBR in the process, and that you don't have any excess parts that ATF would consider a MG by themselves or in combination, but that is generally not an issue if you have one pack with multiple compatible hosts.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not the legal forum, but I will add this:
In PA, machine guns are illegal. The law states "It is a defense under this section for the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that he possessed or dealt with the weapon solely as a curio or in a dramatic performance, or that, with the exception of a bomb, grenade or incendiary device, he complied with the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. § 5801 et seq.)", which basically means you can have machine guns in PA but you might be arrested for it still. (I believe Texas was like this until recently)

Read here:
http://codes.findlaw.com/pa/title-18-pacsa-crimes-and-offenses/pa-csa-sect-908-nr2.html
 
Thats the thing though, most websites seem to point to machineguns being illegal only if the federal government considers them to be illegal, I.E. the state of pennsylvania isn't fighting the US government on the 1986 act, but other than that doesn't seem to care.
 
OP: I think you're a little confused about state MG registries (probably due to AlexanderA's comment). VA is a bit of an oddball regarding machine guns in that they have a state machine gun registry separate from the NFA. Some other states have various quirks like this, but by and large this is NOT the norm.

Don't want to state the obvious, but if you're not in VA, you don't have to worry about their laws.

My understanding is that PA does not have a separate state registry and that they default to the NFA rules, which means your registered receiver/trigger pack/sear would be the only machine gun as far as anyone is concerned. You would not have to register the host - it would be similar to owning a suppressor where the can is registered, but you can swap it between guns (hosts) freey without any registration necessary.

This is why it's important to list your state either in the OP or in your profile. Otherwise it's very easy to get entirely correct advice that is not relevant to your situation.



HK sears/trigger packs are usually the way to go because of the flexibility in which host you want to use (and their price typically reflects this). One advantage of going the trigger pack route is that you should be able to replace the internal parts in the case of wear/breakage. If you have a registered sear and it breaks, you're generally out of luck unless you can find a gunsmith with the ability to fix it. On that note, it may be a good idea to have insurance on your gun. I don't know about you, but if I broke a $30k gun I'd be very happy to get at least something back...

Also, not to open up another can of worms, but with trigger packs/sears, there is also the issue of timing. I'm not sure if HK Sears need to be timed to the trigger pack or timed to the gun, but it is something to think about when switching around between guns.
 
Maybe I can clear this up ... I'm in Kansas and we don't have a separate state registry for machine gums ... Just NFA.

I have a pre-86 registered sear, it has a timed hammer to compensate for the change in geometry of the sear ... It wasn't completely reliable until I got that hammer.

All of my hosts started out as "pistols" but I SBR'd them so I could shoot them with a stock without the sear ... I've got 9mm, 223, 7.62x39 & 7.62x51 ... You need the correct ejector in the trigger pack for the corresponding weapon.

I found full otto 308 isn't much fun ... 9mm is like baby bear, 223 is momma bear, 7.62x39 is poppa bear ... 7.62x51/308 is pissed off poppa & momma bear ... Without a mount I don't think you can keep it on target for more than a couple rounds, even with a short barrel.

RollerLock_Pistol_Collection.jpg

P2070739.jpg
 
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