Made

Status
Not open for further replies.

sm

member
Joined
Dec 22, 2002
Messages
28,387
Location
Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
White Female age 38.

She has attended private training, has taken training from instructors, she has concealed for over 10 years,with a permit, she has assisted in training ladies.
Her dad retired from LE work, and has since passed due to health.

Still this lady grew up carrying a gun, before Permits were issued where she comes from and grew up carrying a gun always, or one in vehicle from teenage years.
She is sharp, attentive, and she can shoot handgun, rifle, shotgun, very very well.

She most often has at least one clip on knife, if not two.
Emerson, Benchmade and Spyderco's , depending on mood, or dress.
SureFire or other light.

Not a purse person, she knows who she is, and does not need to tote her "who I am" around.
Even with kids, she traveled light...

Dress varies from Jeans with oxford shirts, and simple vest to match outfit, to casual pants, blouse and top with linen jacket to "$#%@ dress, hose, shoes and all that #@#$%# that goes with it.
Little black dress is fine, this other stuff she hates.

One would not know she is a mom, she looks younger, and other mom's are stunned to find out she is. None of the "body went to heck" or "age creeping up" stuff.

She looks like a 25 year college student that messes with wood, or cars or something.
She does, woodworking/carpentry projects, messes with vehicles, and whatever else- as her hands and nails looks like she was doing projects.
Her husband is the same way.
"We have to sell you kids off, folks don't believe we are that old to have kids your age, so it was nice knowing you guys..."

Just how the family razzes.
Kids...get a kick out of other kids making comments about "Whoa, what a stud that guy is" or " check out the babe in jeans" - and the kids grin and "Oh, you like our parents huh?"




Business suit and Blazer, [pants worn not the skirt]specially cut to conceal.
Good shoes, with good soles.

She went to check on a couple, and they needed some items, as one just had minor knee surgery. She said she would go.
She ran to a Box Store with a Grocery store built in.

She stopped by the Sporting Goods to get a AA Mag light and batteries and this is where her gut and her body felt eyes.
Then a cell phone call one aisle over "She has a clip on knife".

She knows this game all too well...
She has seen video tapes of how teams work a store and parking lots using cell phones.

She calls husband, and then a Cop Buddy.
Cop is off duty, and shows up, as he does not live that far away.
Team, was watching, inside and out.
Parallel in aisles as she made her way to right up in front of checkout. Right there with plenty of folks, and lots of room and options.

"She has a gun, appendix". Was heard on the cell phone...
She admits missing that team member , a female teenager, brushing by as she rounded a corner -much like a pickpocket does to "read" a mark and where wallet is (hip or breast pocket)

This lady left with the cop she called , wearing regular clothes, and driving regular car. They were watched, not followed. He and she both leaving using "evade and not get tailed" methods.
Another cop, in civilian clothes, later went back and got her vehicle.


Times are crazy, economy is nuts, and this reminds me of 1980 and gold going over $800 an ounce.
Folks are out, and in teams. This was not just punks, instead some teenager and older folks real damn good at the craft.

This lady grew up with guns, with a LEO in the family, she has taken training some civilians "can't" or "don't" get, as she was allowed to do some stuff as Police Depts do.
She has "run with the SWAT teams" and gotten to do some of what they do.
She has trained and assisted with lots of folks, including ladies.
She has gone to homes, apts, condos, and businesses to access and suggest how to prevent.

She debriefed, beat herself up for all this, still the way it played, she was made by a good team, good at the craft.

What really "got her goat" was the fact she most often CCWs IWB, or OWB at
4-4:30. A bone stock Commander 1911, or 3" K frame.
OLDer model 042, 442, 36 or 37 J frame are BUGs

One can hug his gal, and not make her,I have been one to see how her outfit does and concealment works.

She has been sharing appendix carry with a Glock 26 in some Kydex, set up, with some ladies.
This is what she was CCWing.

"I never got brushed or tested where I prefer to carry, instead appendix, Steve, someone knows about appendix carry, and clip on knives and is sharing with teams.
"Sporting Goods, where folks look at guns, ammunition and knives, this is where this team is picking marks, the gun folks go to that Dept..."
- she shared.

Our gut says - Internet Gun Forums, and Sites and teams are gleaning information.
Something some of us have been concerned with for some time now.


Let us be careful out there - Hill Street Blues
 
People buy guns with cash sometimes, good money to be had. Maybe they want to get off duty cops. Did anyione in the dadgum store, cop or otherwise, note the descriptions on the cell phone users, pictures, make it obvious they had been "made", and escort them off property? They can refuse service to anyone. Acting in a suspicious manner like that is good enough for some action. Not to mention, if I follow this correctly, they ID her sidearm, yet continued to "mark" her as a target? Overconfident or really very good?
Time to turn the heat back on them.
 
I couldn't really understand what was going on here. The "narrative" voice hybrid of 3rd and 1st person made it read strangely.

I don't get it. "Teams" are going around trying to steal guns DIRECTLY FROM people CCWing? Why the mentions of online forums? You think the "teams" are tracing IPs?

Are they trying to steal knives off people too?

I could really use some clarification here.

What I don't get is, if teams of people are going around using high-tech methods to track shipment of items and so on, why not just use those methods to get items that AREN'T lethal, locked, and loaded?

I could see stealing a TV that was shipped directly to someone's home, but why try to steal the bull's horns, follow?
 
conwict,

Pickpockets, purse snatchers and strong armed robbers sometimes work in teams as do shoplifters. It's possible that the woman in sm's post was mistaken for loss prevention people or a plainclothes officer. It's also possible that they were looking for a victim to rob.

I'm aware of no gang looking to steal firearms from CCW holders.

Jeff
 
I read it as a shoplifting team scoping out the store and trying to read security personnel.

I would contact store security before the tape is recorded over so that possibly there are pictures of the people she was made by.
 
Criminals vary in skill sets and often work as a "team" , "group" , or "gang".

Pickpockets are the most well known to most , of these "teams" that work crowds. Casinos, Sporting Events, Concerts, County Fairs...etc.

Many folks only are aware of, or only see one or two members of persons working together.

For instance a victim robbed on the parking lot, only reports to Police, seeing one person, the one that robbed them.
What they did not see, were the folks stalking them from the time they parked vehicle, entered store, shopped and exited.

Video tapes have shown, persons picking out a person using the ATM machine in a grocery store, or 'mart' store and then being followed. Criminals using cell phones to report to others the lady/gent wearing such-n-such clothes just got money from a ATM machine.

Orders to fill.

Folks on up the Criminal Hierarchy have "purchase orders" to fill.
Guns, Jlry, Credit Cards, Vehicles...you name it, and there are those that want these items.

Criminals pay attention, "boss on up the ladder" says they have a "customer" that wants a late model minivan.
Criminals watch people and lots to get a mini-van. Used later for some other criminal activity.

"Boss" says he has an order for Credit Cars.
Fine, you pull out wallet, to use ATM at Grocery Store, and all them Credit Cards are seen by one of the Criminals.
Cell phones get used, you are stalked, and hit on the parking lot.

Guns.
Folks from homeless to others are "Profiling " some as being CCW-ers simply because they have a clip on knife. They overpower and get your gun.
Get your DL, or Vehicle Registration, and they know where you live and most likely have more guns.

Clip knife and Surefire draws attention.
These folks know the difference in a Emerson, and Surefire and a $3 clip on utility knife , and AA Mag-light used by a maintenance worker.

They are reading the whole person.
Painter /Carpenter paints, hands dirty with drywall dust , versus, BDUs and Glock Ball cap.
This ain't rocket science.

Milling around a lot..and reading vanity plates, decals, parking stickers...

Big Difference in "Forget 911 I call 1911" and "Give blood - Play Rugby"
Which one are you likely to suspect having guns, or greatest possibility of being a CCW-er?

You see a couple of cars on a lot, over to themselves:

-Maybe the youths doing a drug by with auto opening trunks, and the music and how car is painted with bling bling wheels.

-Visitation weekend and a kid putting his duffel and backpack in dad's vehicle.

-Scout troop putting gear in a bus, or vans and parents around.

-Fake bullet holes, "If it flies it dies" truck shows up and meets "Driver only carries $20 in reloads" and "Protected by Smith & Wesson Decal.

Now which one are you and your buddies going to roll up on, or follow, if you want guns, and your "boss" says he needs guns to fill an order?

I am going for the last one mentioned, and happy days, if I see a Logo gun case, camo clothes and everything else.


This had gone on forever, before Internet, before cell phones...
Internet and cell phones are additional tools in criminal tool boxes too.


Stolen cars and chop shops, these new keys sure do make it a lot easier to see who drives what.

Next time at the checkout, take note of key ring of persons with keys out.
See the name of car, shape of key.
Look onto lot and see if you spot which car belongs to that person.

My vehicle keys, are plain, generic, brass ones, no make or model on them...on purpose.
 
I'll reply publicly what was asked in private.

Guns.
It depends on "team" and how they are set up.
Pickpockets versus a thug punk group differ in skill sets, objectives and how they do "business.

Thug Punks, and guns, it again depends on skill sets and how or if they are organized. It could just a random crime of opportunity, or a group acting together.

Watch the ladies in a group.
Some of the gangs have the ladies hold guns for shooters.
Not all in that gang are packing, still watch the ladies because if the signal is given and she comes to a male, or he moves toward her, she has the gun.

She is practiced in the art of deception and will put that gun in his hand, his back pocket, his coat pocket or he will reach in to her purse, or her coat pocket or hug her, and retrieve from her waistband.

Targets will be distracted by others, the "couple" appears to be not part of , or less threatening.
 
Thanks sm, awesome post.

I'd also be interested in knowing how organized organized crime is these days.

I was under the impression that the sun had set on the true Cosa Nostra/Mafia and it was mostly individuals or loosely knit groups now, with the exception of MS13 (maybe overblown?) and older gangs.

This is not to imply, of course, that I feel it is less dangerous now due to these factors.
 
This thread actually reminds me of a strange story, and I hope I'm not hijacking if I post it here and ask your opinion.

My girlfriend and I were in the mall at a fairly upscale clothing retailer and I noticed a middle Eastern (probably Pakistani, maybe Indian) man, late 30s, looking at me closely. He was with an attractive woman younger than him who seemed to be doing some cursory shopping.

I was holding an energy drink waiting for my girlfriend to finish trying stuff on and he walked up to me and asked me about it. I detected bull**** from the start, and kind of played along since we were in a crowded area, without revealing much about myself.

He said he is a marketing rep for an energy drink place, then went on to prove himself a liar by saying a bunch of weird stuff like "our energy drinks are caffeine free" and claiming he knew all about this (very obscure) brand of energy drink I was drinking.

When my GF exited the changing room he tried to be "gentlemanly" and shook her hand, said she was pretty and I should keep her, etc.

Gave me a strange business card that was from a free company and had some .ca email addresses on it, then his gf came up out of the changing room and just stood there suspiciously while I talked to the man. VERY suspiciously, she hardly even looked at me. He was acting like they were partners, she wasn't. Or if she was his partner, she wasn't acting like most. She, by the way, was Korean looking.

They checked out and left and I told my GF about my bad gut feeling, so we stuck around in the store a bit longer. I noticed the couple watching us from outside the store. I was in total orange by now, and only had a pocket stick on me. We stuck around til they left, then found a security guard, who made a copy of the guy's card with handwriting on it and sent out kind of a bulletin about him.

We were very cautious and made our way carefully to our car. The coast was clear and we left. I made sure the guy didn't see me talking to the security guard (he was long gone by then anyway, and I talked to the guard in a lobby/hallway).

I came to find out the energy drink company the guy claimed to work for was one of those "pyramid" companies like Avon, Mary Kay, etc. So basically anyone can "work" for them if they buy wholesale items and sell them for the company, "recruit" other members, etc.

Two possible theories may apply here as far as I can see.

1) Guy was an all-around con man and uses these pyramid companies to appear legit, then steals his customers' info/ID and disappears.

2) Guy was part of a more serious robbery operation and uses various methods (he had obviously marked me, one way or another, and wanted to probe/pry) to get clues about potential victims.

I appeared more and more openly suspicious and kind of called BS on him via tone and body language, and apparently turned him off either way.
 
By the way, I found out about "his" company online, AFTER the encounter, but suspected as much during (or that he was out-and-out lying).
 
Steve: Excellent post, again! Boy, does that make me look like a sheeple! Thought I "dun gud" today when I stopped for gas: walked in the stop-N-rob and didn't see anybody!!!!!! Backed up toward the door, scanning, strong hand at right side, cell phone in left. This is a hard store to see all of well, as are most. Clerk I recognized came out of back room, back to yellow.

Stay safe.
Bob
 
The Bad Guys (and Bad Gals, too) are sometimes a lot 'slicker' than we give them credit for being....

There just isn't anyplace that is "Safe" anymore.

Please keep the Important Stuff and Life Lessons passing forward, Steve.
We all need all the extra info we can get.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top