Mag possibly fell out of M&P9mm?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Walter W., Aug 11, 2008.

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  1. Walter W.

    Walter W. Member

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    I have a 9mm Smith M&P and the magazine was no longer in it when I took it out from my belt. I'm guessing it fell out somewhere and I may not have heard it!

    I am wondering if anyone ever had or heard of a mag just falling out of an M&P. Not even shooting, just holstered and going about daily business. It still had one chambered, and I wouldn't take the magazine out and carry one round.

    The serial starts with MPV if that makes a difference.

    All around, a very odd situation.
     
  2. Treo

    Treo member

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    Are you sure you put a mag in it this morning?
     
  3. salvador31c

    salvador31c Member

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    maybe your holster allows for you to hit the mag release when you were out and about and it slip'd out
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  4. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    O.P. - why do you not disclose full info. and say what
    kind of holster you have, as well as how it sits in the holster?

    R-
     
  5. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

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    I never thought of it but I guess the holster could press on the mag release. I'd assume (if it did) that it happened while sitting so I'd check all around the car seat. Then wherever I sat during the day.
    You can't really go around asking, "You didn't happen to find a magazine full of bullets, did you?" Not like leaving your sunglasses in a restaurant.

    This can't be common, think of how many LEO's move around all day and never lose a mag. Are you missing a magazine? I assume you know how many you have. Odd.
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Early issue Plastic M&Ps were somewhat known for weak magazine catches. Contact S&W, they will put in a new part.
     
  7. LT1coupe

    LT1coupe Member

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    Mine released the mag in a Leather Don Hume holster (I did not loose it).The release button was too long for my taste so I filed it down significantly.
    I filed it down to where it is ~flush when pushed to release the mag & rounded the edges.
    I've never had an issue since.
     
  8. Disaster

    Disaster Member

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    +1

    S&W made several changes to the mag release. The new design has been 100% reliable for me. Send it back to S&W for service.
     
  9. kd7nqb

    kd7nqb Member

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    I have one of the M&P's with the faulty mag catches but I always heard that the issue was only when fired. Dont think thats whats causing this.
     
  10. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    Magazines falling out when you don't want them to is a well-documented and frequent problem with the M&P.

    Just one more reason I carry XD's and Kimbers.
     
  11. Disaster

    Disaster Member

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    ...and if you did an iota of research you'd also know the problem has been fixed.
     
  12. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    Mags can fall out. This is not new, and is one reason Europeans preferred heel-clip mag releases for so long. (Most heel-clips will retain the mag; it will protrude a bit but not fall out.)

    1. Make sure you holster does not press on your mag release in a way that releases the mag.

    2. Make sure you holster protects your mag release gadget from objects making contact with your mag release gadget. (I said "gadget" because I don't know what type of release the M&P uses.)

    I have experienced unintended releases of magazines with two different pistols, one heel-clip type on a P220, and button type on a 1911. It happens. I have learned to follow the two listed steps to make sure it never happens again. To be absolutely certain, there is another option:

    3: Carry a revolver.
     
  13. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    I already did my research, and you've been proven wrong. The following was posted by an LEO on another site just a few short months ago, and the M&P is STILL dropping mags:

     
  14. Disaster

    Disaster Member

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    That one link is NOT proof. Go to the M&P forum and read the long link of people who have had them. If anyone's mag is still falling out is because either A: They didn't send the gun back to S&W for the full fix (which involved more than just replacing the release) or B: They are having another issue like accidently pressing the release with their hand or a holster that does likewise.

    http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=4064&st=60&start=60
     
  15. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    The LEO said he's on his second mag release already.

    Common sense tells me that they would've done the "full fix" when he sent it back to have the mag release replaced the first time, and the M&P is STILL messing up on him.

    The M&P has been a quality control nightmare ever since it was released, with numerous documented significant problems---and I own an M&P myself, so I know of what I speak.

    If I had to get rid of one of my XD's or my M&P tomorrow, the M&P would be gone for good. It just doesn't have the record of reliability the XD has, and the M&P won't stand up to a torture test like this:

    http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php

    Over TWENTY THOUSAND rounds through a stock XD that was torture tested, without a single malfunction of any kind!
     
  16. Disaster

    Disaster Member

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    or like this??? 31,000 rounds and counting with 0 failures.

    http://pistol-training.com/archives/444

    All pistols can experience failures. You can focus on the few and say they are junk or you can be realistic and look at the majority. Just last week a guy posted about his XP failing a trigger bar at 4K rounds or so. Does that mean XP's are crap? No. Does it mean they have horrible quality control? No. It does mean they let a bad one through like most companies do.

    Springfield isn't perfect, neither is S&W. But both make good pistols.
     
  17. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    If you'd bothered to read your own link, you'd realize that:

    1. The M&P had TWO STOPPAGES, i.e. FAILURES TO FIRE.
    2. Custom work had been done on the M&P, making it more reliable.
    3. The M&P was NOT put through a torture test of any kind.

    The XD at my link was put through a rigorous torture test that would've rendered an M&P unshootable, and the XD still had ZERO malfunctions or stoppages of any kind whatsoever. It was also a "box stock" gun bought straight off a dealer's shelf, with no custom work done on it at all.

    Gee, ya reckon?! :what:

    However, the XD has a proven track record of having had FAR fewer failures than the M&P. Failures are the EXCEPTION with the XD's, while they've been the NORM for the M&P's.

    There's a huge difference between the XD's, where you have only an occasional isolated pistol with function problems---and the M&P, which has had the SAME significant problems on THOUSANDS of its weapons. The M&P has had entire production runs with obvious manufacturing defects in an enormous percentage of the pistols.

    But the XD is considerably CLOSER to perfect and a BETTER pistol than the M&P, based on things like quality control, durability, reliability etc. I own both, but if I could only own one, it would be the XD hands down.
     
  18. 18DAI

    18DAI Member

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    The M&P, despite it's rather strident fans, does have issues.

    The mag dropping issue is rather well known, I thought. It was happening Saturday at my local range, with a brand new M&P 9 compact.

    Either S&W has yet to get it right, or the shooter was causing it :rolleyes:

    I'll take a Glock, any Glock, over an M&P thanks.
     
  19. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    Amen, Thaddeus!

    Smith & Wesson must include rose-colored shooting glasses with all their M&P's! :evil:
     
  20. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    The internet is an interesting thing. It can function as easily as a rumor control engine without peer as it can to disseminate good information. ;)

    FWIW, the improperly hardened magazine catches were supposed to have been going out in all M&P's toward the end of last year. "New" can mean just produced and shipped, or just purchased after having been received from a wholesaler where it sat for several months, or just purchased where it had sat on a dealer's shelf for a similar length of time.

    S&W was still sending the new magazine catches out to LE armorers upon request back toward the end of last year. Even to regular commercial customers upon occasion, apparently as long as they felt comfortable replacing the part themselves. The thing is that armorers had to think to mention to the factory that they were having a problem, and not keep it to themselves. You'd be amazed how often things go unreported, though.

    I briefly spoke to a fellow from one agency who said they didn't understand why their early production M&P's were sometimes dropping magazines during training. When I asked if they'd called an requested new magazine catches to replace the ones in their early release guns, explaining about the small run of improperly hardened inserts in some of the early catches, he said he had no idea what I was talking about ... and said his firearms unit hadn't ever mentioned even being aware of the issue involving the improperly hardened catches S&W had received from their vendor at one time. Maybe it's time to make a call.

    Yes, a slight modification of the grip frame was done earlier, but that was supposed to have been (according to S&W) during the very early production period. The M&P was released in Jan '06, if I remember.

    When I think of what our folks tell me when they bring me their guns, telling me what's wrong with them and what needs to be repaired, more often than not it turns out to be something the shooter did that caused the problem, instead of being an actual gun problem. That's why I prefer to have the opportunity to observe the user with the gun out on the firing line, rather than just find a gun on the bench with a note attached saying it needs to be repaired. I've caught more shooter-related "gun problems" out on the firing line, and corrected them, than gun problems over the years.

    It's not much different in CCW classes, either.

    I had a fellow who had a Walther PPK/s which was repeatedly dropping the magazine during the course of fire. I mean repeatedly.

    I finally took the fellow off to the side and asked him to slowly shoot a string of fire while I carefully observed him from the left side. His grip appeared good before he started shooting. Neither thumb was anywhere near the magazine catch button. (The magazine catch button had appeared to be in good working order, with proper spring tension, when I briefly checked it, too.)

    As soon as he started shooting, however, I saw that his off-side (left) thumb shifted under recoil. The tip of that left thumb very adroitly found the magazine catch button and depressed it ... at which time the magazine promptly fell to the ground. After a couple of repetitions I'd seen enough.

    I had him shift his left hand a bit, modifying how he held his left thumb, and repeat the course of fire without telling him why. Naturally, the magazine remained in the gun as he fired it empty. When I told him what he had been doing, completely unaware, he had a gentlemanly fit. :banghead: He said that all these years he'd thought the gun simply had a problem and he'd put up with it, and he was quite annoyed to find out that he'd been causing it the whole time.

    He's not the first person I've seen do something like that, either.

    Not everyone's hands may fit all pistols to the extent that fingers and thumbs don't 'get in the way' of various controls. Usually it's slide stop levers on different designs & pistol platforms. Magazine catch buttons have been involved in such things, though, too. Improperly fitting holsters (or holsters not used properly) can cause unexpected grief when they depress magazine catch buttons while the user is going about his/her normal activities.

    My M&P 45 was produced sometime in April of this year according to the code. Granted, I've only had a few opportunities to shoot it since I received it, but in that time I've fired over 900 rounds of assorted ammunition through it, with all but a couple of boxes of it being an assortment of 3 different duty-type hollowpoint loads. I've run it fairly hard through the usual drills and courses-of-fire ... distances covering 2-50 yards, 2-handed/1-handed, 'weak-handed', moving, standing, kneeling, barricade (standing/kneeling; strong & off-side), etc.

    I cleaned it when it was NIB before shooting it, then after a couple hundred rounds had been fired, and then just after passing the 900+ mark (I wasn't carrying it and was only using it for range training/familiarization, otherwise it would've been cleaned after each session before it was used for actual off-duty usage).

    During that time it's demonstrated itself to be a surprisingly accurate pistol, and it's exhibited good, reliable functioning throughout. The initially heavy trigger (noticeably on the "+" side of the 2lb +/- range of the standard 7 1/2lb stock .45 trigger ;) ) has smoothed out and felt 'lighter' as it was fired. I haven't had the time to check it with the digital gauge since it was NIB, though, so maybe becoming more familiar with it might be influencing my perception. The trigger is smooth and predictable in its 'break' and reset. Better than I'd expected, actually. All in all, I like it better than I expected.

    It'll never rival the traditional double action of the 99-series ... (and I have a personal preference for a good TDA gun for general purpose, followed by a good 1911-style for special needs in the hands of an experienced user) ... but if I had to express a preference, I'd offer that it was easier to adapt to (for me, mind you) than my Glocks.

    I've only spoken to folks from a few agencies who have either been testing M&P's or have already adopted them. Aside from that one fellow who said they were experiencing the mag catch/unintentional release issue in their early models, everyone else has expressed very good satisfaction with the guns.

    Not bad for only having been released into the LE market for just over a couple of years. Last I heard S&W had reached the 347-mark when it came to the number of agencies who have already adopted the M&P. They've been quick to address not only the little issues which have surfaced (not uncommon in a new model), but have responded with some changes requested by some LE customers, as well.

    I'd wish a special sight pusher wasn't required for the M&P (I already have a couple of pushers for other platforms), but overall I think S&W's design & engineering team has done an excellent job of coming up with something that will increase their presence in the pistol market once again. About time.

    I heard a while back that they were in the process of revising the striker design to make it less susceptible to breakage from dry-fire w/o snap caps. I've heard of some competitive shooters using one striker assembly for dedicated dry-fire and another for actual shooting, to reduce the potential for breaking a striker. I don't engage in excessive dry-fire with striker-fired guns, anyway. I've always wondered if it might not be somewhat harder on strikers to repeatedly slam into the back of the breech face, compared to a tapered firing pin slipping into and through a hole in the breech face. Different impact forces between the different parts, so to speak. Never asked an engineer, though.

    It's just a firearm, though, and just a handgun, at that.

    No reason to get personalities involved when it comes to discussing one ...

    I've seen examples of just about all of the major manufacturer's offerings act up or experience breakage of parts at one time or another. Glock is still revising, upgrading & refining parts in their well-established model line. ;)

    There's likely a good reason that the major manufacturers of pistols which see a lot of LE usage offer armorer training programs ... and stock spare parts, after all ... :)
     
  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    My Plastic M&P works just fine. The magazine stays in until I push the catch.

    I was not patient enough to wait for the stamped and screw machine parts to "break in" so I sent it to Dan Burwell for a trigger job. Very nice, probably take a hundred years to "break in" to that degree.
     
  22. Disaster

    Disaster Member

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    That is the most absurd comment with absolutely no basis in fact. Do you really think the majority of M&P's have problems?

    If this were true you'd read many more reports of problems.

    I have two and have had zero stoppages through several thousand rounds. I suppose I'm the exception???

    I have read of more than one person having a problem with their XP but I'm not about to claim that a majority of people have problems.

    As far as the stoppage the gentlemen had two failures to reset during the same shooting session which he determined was caused by over lubricating which caused a build up of grime. He cleaned the gun and was more careful with the application of lubricant and never had another failure to reset. By the way, what was the "custom work" that was done to that M&P to make it more reliable?

    Whatever. I'm done with this ridiculous argument. Let people read the evidence and decide for themselves.
     
  23. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    Documented problem after documented problem with the M&P. It's no surprise to longtime gun owners, who know that Smith has ALWAYS had an unusually high number of problems with their semi-autos. Like the dreaded Sigma, renamed the "Stigma" by a friend of mine who was unfortunate enough to have owned one.

    The M&P has had significant problems from the get-go. Defective slide locks, defective magazine releases, defective extractors, FTE's, FTF's, sights falling off---you name it.

    The M&P is yet another in a long line of problem semi-autos that Smith has released.

    Problems are the norm with so many M&P's, whereas they're the exception with the XD.

    I've been shooting for over forty years, and Smith's quality control on their semi-autos has always stunk rather badly, as far back as I can remember.
     
  24. DrewH

    DrewH Member

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    I had two M&Ps, fired 1200 rounds through them without a single problem. Magazines stayed in them. Good ergonomics, grip and feel. Didn't like the take down mechanism, or need removable grips. Decided I would stick with Glock and sold them.

    Had an XD earlier as well, pretty reliable as well, only one jam in 1485 rounds. Looking at the XD torture test article you posted, saw that they claimed everybody liked the XD trigger better than Glock. Well, I decidedly preferred Glock's trigger reset. Wasn't so found of the XD grip safety as well. Same decision, decided to stick with my Glocks. Been true of a lot of pistol brands for me, actually.

    I disagree that the XD is so much better than the M&P, or that the M&P would automatically choke on that rather meaningless torture test. Todd, the guy who is shooting all those rounds through the M&P, doesn't have relaibility mods, he has a tuned trigger. Heck the two failures in 31,000 he had were probably overlubing. I definitely prefer the M&P ergonomics.

    XD had the traditional new gun problems when they came out, forget what they are cause I didn't pay much attention but remember people bitching about them and Springfield announcing upgrades. Same as every other gun out there.

    Glad you like your XD so much.
     
  25. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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    The XD torture test isn't near as meaningless as your entire post.

    Everything in your post is your anecdotal opinion. That torture test has been documented by numerous reliable witnesses, so it has been established as credible fact.

    Wake me up when the M&P has successfully withstood that identical torture test. Not surprisingly, Smith & Wesson has never volunteered the M&P for such a test.
     
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