Magnum - Small rifle vs small pistol

cowboyjoe97

cowboyjoe97

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I was given a brick of "Small rifle primers - Magnum" No. 450. What are these used/designed for? Can they be used in a "Small pistol - Magnum"?

What rifle is a Magnum?
 
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From what I have gathered through years of reloading! Didn't say learned :rofl:
Small rifle primers are harder and hotter than small pistol magnum primers. I think I have heard that they are a little taller than pistol primers. Whether or not you can safely substitute them maybe but I have never tried to experiment doing so.
Good reason to get a rifle that uses them if you don't have one already :thumbup:
 
If your gun will fire them Proceed. The primers are the same height. Lp. and LR are different. Good video here on pressures. Proving they are safe to use.
www.youtube.com

Are Small Pistol Magnum & Small Rifle Primers Safe in 9mm?

Today we test 3 popular types of primers in 9mm ammunition. We pressure test and chronograph the 3 to show the differences, if any. If you have questions ple...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
If you choose to use them, monitor your gun for breech face erosion also known as pitting.

breech-erosion_004-jpg.124050
 
One issue with using small Rifle magnum primers in a Pistol / Revolver, the SMR primers have a thicker cup @ .025". Small rifle primers have a cup thickness of .020". Small Pistol primers have a cup thickness of about .018".

Not many Pistols / Revolvers will set off a .025" primer cup. I've tested them in a Glock and the .025" will not ignite reliably. I do use the Winchester and CCI SRP with the .020" cup and they work fine.

I suggest you test these primers before you load a bunch up. For my testing, I just used a primed case to test rather than loaded rounds.
 
CoalCrackerAl said:
If your gun will fire them Proceed. The primers are the same height. Lp. and LR are different. Good video here on pressures. Proving they are safe to use.
www.youtube.com

Are Small Pistol Magnum & Small Rifle Primers Safe in 9mm?

Today we test 3 popular types of primers in 9mm ammunition. We pressure test and chronograph the 3 to show the differences, if any. If you have questions ple...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...

That video shows one (1) example with just one caliber (9mm) with an unknown bullet, unknown OAL, unknown powder and unknown powder charge.

It should NOT be generalized to anything else.
 
I have used them successfully in .327 .357 9mm .40s&w and 7.62x38r. I had a bunch and no spp my guns ran fine but your's may not. Test before you crank out 1k.
 
Englishmn said:
I have used them successfully in .327 .357 9mm .40s&w and 7.62x38r. I had a bunch and no spp my guns ran fine but your's may not. Test before you crank out 1k.
Click to expand...
You have used a MAGNUM primer in a 9mm or 40S&W?

I don't think it is good to use Magnum primers in anything other than a Magnum caliber. My question is related to SMALL PISTOL vs SMALL RIFLE (both Magnum) primers.
 
I use the CCI 450's in my AR15, but be aware that slamfires MAY happen with them in an AR platform. So if you have an AR you may be good to go.

I haven't tried them in any of my pistols since I have plenty of SPP.

chris
 
cowboyjoe97 said:
Yep.. i have a brick of the CCI FRP Mag No 450. Wondering what i canuse these for. I really want to use in my .357 handguns.
Click to expand...
This has been done by many people (including myself) with good success. The only issues are as have already been mentioned: cup thickness and firing pin geometry.

In my personal experience with .357 revolvers, single and double action, the additional hardness and thickness of even “milspec” SRM primers is no problem.

Try a couple of cylinder full and see for yourself. The risk is negligible.
 
cowboyjoe97 said:
I was given a brick of "Small rifle primers - Magnum". What are these used for? Can they be used in a "Small pistol - Magnum"?
Click to expand...


What brand are they?

CCI Small Pistol Magnum and CCI Small Rifle are the same primers just packaged in different boxes. They have the same cup dimensions and primer charge (I do believe they are made on the same assembly line, even).
They have the same brisance, which is the amount of energy release by the primer when it is ignited.

Small Rifle Magnum primers (assuming CCI) would have a higher brisance than the two listed above. They will produce more energy to light powder and therefore increase the initial pressure of the cartridge when fired.

Personally I wouldn't use Small Rifle Magnum in place of Small Pistol Magnum unless I had absolutely no other options, and even then I would work up a new load from the bottom of published loading data.

I don't mean this as offense, but since you are asking if they can be used interchangeably I have to think you aren't that experienced in hand loading? If this is the case, just save them for another cartridge type that calls for small rifle magnum primers and get some small pistol mags for what you're doing.

Early in the handloading experience is no time to go off book or make assumptions about components and their applications.
 
Bearded Phil said:
CCI Small Pistol Magnum and CCI Small Rifle are the same primers just packaged in different boxes.
Click to expand...

This is false.

small magnum pistol primer - The Firing Line Forums

small magnum pistol primer Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting
thefiringline.com

Update on CCI 550 primers and CCI 400 primers being the same. They are not.

See posts number 7 and 14.

And see the updated ar15 post here;

Reloading - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.
www.ar15.com www.ar15.com

Ask CCI yourself; https://www.cci-ammunition.com/contactus

=========================
I emailed CCI (August 2016) and specifically asked them if the 550 small pistol magnum and 400 small rifle were the same primer. My email question:

"Are your small pistol magnum primers (550) exactly the same as your small rifle standard primers (400)?
There is a rumor on the internet that they are the same primer, just in a different box."

This was their reply:

"They are not the same primer, there are differences in the primer and you should follow published loading data. The web has some very dangerous information on it and anything that you use should be published and tested data."

Justin M./Technical Service Rep.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer

I asked them what the difference between primers was, and they told me the mixture was different.
 
fxvr5 said:
This is false.

small magnum pistol primer - The Firing Line Forums

small magnum pistol primer Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting
thefiringline.com

Update on CCI 550 primers and CCI 400 primers being the same. They are not.

See posts number 7 and 14.

And see the updated ar15 post here;

Reloading - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.
www.ar15.com www.ar15.com

Ask CCI yourself; https://www.cci-ammunition.com/contactus

=========================
I emailed CCI (August 2016) and specifically asked them if the 550 small pistol magnum and 400 small rifle were the same primer. My email question:

"Are your small pistol magnum primers (550) exactly the same as your small rifle standard primers (400)?
There is a rumor on the internet that they are the same primer, just in a different box."

This was their reply:

"They are not the same primer, there are differences in the primer and you should follow published loading data. The web has some very dangerous information on it and anything that you use should be published and tested data."

Justin M./Technical Service Rep.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer

I asked them what the difference between primers was, and they told me the mixture was different.
Click to expand...

I've seen the exact opposite answer posted before by someone who also claimed to have contacted CCI so take it with a grain of salt.
 
I tired CCI 450 in my S&W 686+ since I always have bricks and bricks of them on hand for loading 223 and 6.8

They're a no go here. Generally required two trigger pulls on a revolver to defeat the thicker cup.
 
Bearded Phil said:
I've seen the exact opposite answer posted before by someone who also claimed to have contacted CCI so take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

Unclenick, at the firing line forum, is one of the people who started that rumor many years back. He has contacted CCI since then and they told him the primers are not the same. Take the time to go to that link and read post #14.

And by all means, Ask CCI yourself; https://www.cci-ammunition.com/contactus
 
Bearded Phil said:
work up a new load from the bottom of published loading data.
Click to expand...
Always good advice. Anytime a major component is changed, a reduction in charge and reevaluation of the load is recommended. Some major components are close enough in specifications not to require a full rework - cases come immediately to mind - but even then prudence dictates caution.
 
Excellent feedback here!
First, I am using CCI No 450 - Small Rifle 'Magnum'

Next, i want to understand:
1. What are CCI No450 Small Rifle Magnum designed for specifically.
- i see a lot of comments about using these for .223, 6.8, 40S&W, 9MM and pretty sure none of those are "Magnum". Some are small rifle and some are small pistol, but none are "Magnum".
2. I did try these in my .357 Magnum revolver and 6 did not fire. the other 94 fired just fine. I tried those 6 twice in my pistol and inspected each round to see if the seating was too deep or not.

So... .with that stated above. These do work for .357Mag reloads, using both Remington and PMC brass. The size worked and I did not see any negative results. But I'm still curious what else these No450s were designed for. Is this possibly if you were shooting .44mag or .357mag out of a henry rifle? does the "Pistol" vs "Rifle" really matter. I'm not aware of Magnum rifles; unless they are shooting what we consider pistol ammo (.357, 44, etc).

Thanks for the feedback so far and I will be using my Winchester primers that are specifically WSPM (Winchester Small Pistol Magnum) primers going forward. I may use these CCI No450 (Small Rifle Magnum) primers for my plinkers.
 
Magnum just means “large” - it’s the Latin neuter tense of “great”.
In the reloading world, circumstances determine utility. A magnum primer will deliver better performance under a set of conditions where a standard primer might be lacking; or, not quite as good.
There are magnum rifle cases that just work better with a SRM primer - .222Rem Mag comes immediately to mind - and there’s cartridges where the developer, testing lab, manufactures, etc recommend a SRM for some reason - Milspec 5.56 NATO for example - but the handloader has the option of testing and deciding for themselves what works best - or what is most expedient.

Short story long, a magnum primer is the same as a standard primer, just more of it.
 
"Magnum just means “large” - it’s the Latin neuter tense of “great”."

This is what it says on my rubbers too!

Thanks for the info though.
 
I tried some SRM with light 9mm loads. Using a couple different 9mm's, the only one that would reliably ignite was an old Luger and it set them off just fine. Other than being harder to ignite nothing noticeable happened with the light 9mm loads.

According to Handloader Magazine SRM primers are made to be used for heavier charges of hard to ignite powders. I don't really load any small rifle rounds with heavy charges of hard to ignite powders but I have been using them in .300 Blackout recently just to use them up. I bought some in early 2020 at Sportsman Warehouse for $25 a brick. All the online vendors were sold out and SW had primers on sale so I grabbed as many as they would sell to a person.
 
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