Makarov Question?

[CZSteve]

Debating between a Bersa .380 & a Makarov 9x18.

Was finally able to handle a Makarov @ a local shop.
First impression was Pro & Con.
Grip angle felt pretty good.

Cons:
Did not like the sharp edge on the underside of the trigger guard; tended to bite into my fingers and not too wild about the hole in the back of the grip for the retention screw; didn't like the 'feel' of it on my plam.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but imagine would be easy to carefully round the edge or trigger guard w/ a Dremel. Anyone had similar concerns?

The grips were the Bulgarian style w/ the left thumb rest.
Are the Pearce or Wood grips any better regarding the 'feel' of the hole for the retention screw?

Gun appears to be in decent shape; any particular issues to look for?
Asking $169.00 (don't know if there is a 2nd mag or ?, was closing time and they were busy)

Intent is to use gun for CHL during summer in Texas.

Thanks for any thoughts
Steve

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. You can fix any sharp edges under the trigger guard with a stone or dremel and cold blue. I find that the Pearce grip is very comfortable and I don't "feel" the grip screw hole. "Feel" is certainly subjective, but it might be the same for you.

If weight's an issue, the Bersa is the way I'd go, but 9x18mm Mak ammo is considerably less expensive than .380 ACP. Extra magazines for the Mak are also much less expensive. On the other hand, the Bersa has better fixed sights out of the box than the Mak, although the Makarov can have very good fixed sights added.

I've been very favorably impressed with both pistols.

Best.

 

[CZSteve]

Follow-Up Question?

How does the recoil compare between the Bersa in .380 and the Makarov in 9x18?

Wife (not a regular shooter right now) will be using at times.
Will be breaking her in w/ a .22lr Buckmark as soon as we have the 2nd little rugrat

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply.
BTW: Where or how is the best way to p/u a copy of your HP book?
I do live here in the D/FW metroplex (Arlington to be exact)

Thanks Again
Steve

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello.

Here's some chronograph data from the Bersa based on 10-shot averages:

.380 ACP:

Magtech 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 898 (ES: 181/SD: 48)
Federal 90 gr Classic JHP Ave. Vel. = 969 (ES: 40/SD: 12)
Federal 90 gr Hydrashok Ave. Vel. = 975 (ES: 13/SD: 5)
Corbon 90 gr JHP +P Ave. Vel. = 1015(ES: 64/SD: 20)
Glaser 70gr Safety Slug (Silver) Ave. Vel. = 1221(ES: 172/ SD: 59)
PPS 380 "MPP" 54.5 copper bullet Ave. Vel. = 1399 (ES: 57/SD: 27)

These figures are from the 9x18mm Makarov.

9x18mmMak:

LVE 115 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1025 ft/sec (ES:12/SD:5.38)!
Sellier & Bellot 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 924 ft/sec (ES:264/SD:81)!
Barnaul 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1058 ft/sec (ES:45/SD:13)!
Fiocchi 95 gr ball Ave. Vel. = 1020 ft/sec (ES:89/SD: 32)
Corbon 95 gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1100 ft/sec (ES:29/SD: 12)
Hornady 95 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 984 ft/sec (ES:168/SD:60) HV:1102 ft/sec, LV: 933 ft/sec

So, we can see that the Mak will get higher velocities with a slightly heavier bullet. This translates into greater recoil for the wife, but is countered by the gun's all-steel construction compared to the aluminum alloy frame on the Bersa Thunder.

Since we're speaking of your wife, I'd note also that the Bersa, at least the ONE that I've tested, has a lighter DA trigger pull than either my Bulgarian or E. German Makarov. SA trigger pulls are comparable, but the Makarov hammer spring seems stronger and she might find it a bit harder to cock. The Bersa is a bit smaller and might fit her better than the Makarov. Were I buying one of these two for myself...and could only have one, I'd buy the Makarov, mainly because it's so tough and ammo's inexpensive. Were I buying one primarily for the wife, I'd go with the Bersa.

To order the manual (thank you), you can email me at [email protected] or look under "Products" at www.highpowersandhandguns.com or if you're in a hurry, you can buy it at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3530660380&category=1126

Best.

 

[38snapcaps]

From my experience having owned both, I'd go with the Bersa.

The Mak has a very sharp recoil that can start to really hurt after a short time. Forget the Pearce rubber grip, it just makes the grip fat and doesn't cushion the kick at all. Maks are heavier and the slide is more difficult to operate. The heel mag release is a pain. The frame on the Bersa is much more comfortable with rounded edges, Maks have some pretty sharp edges. A Russian one I had for six months would cut my hand at the base of my thumb joint, I'd have to put a small band-aid to protect it. That go old pretty quick!

Finally, the Bersa is more accurate, easier to shoot, and the trigger in both double and single action is smoother.

I put almost two thousand rounds thru an E. German Makarov and finally gave up trying to make it work. I've put seven hundred thru my Bersa thus far and still enjoy carrying it and shooting it. Its not going anywhere. If my wife wanted to shoot such a gun there is no question she'd choose the Bersa.

 

[sgtmaj13]

Have been shooting and carrying Maks since 1993. Currently own five from all countries except EG. None have given me any problems except for one broken main spring(easily replaced). Accurate, reliable, adequate caliber, easy to maintain, and until recently very economical. Yes, the recoil is snappy, the sights are tiny, the caliber may be marginal to some, and some find the grips uncomfortable. Good hollow point ammo is availble at $6 per 50, so practice till you can put all 8rds COM. Alittle orange paint on the front sight, some original russian grips or aftermarket rubber ones, a visit to www.makarov.com, and your ready to go. If the Mak your looking at is in good shape and you can get it for $170 I'd say go for it. Surplus Bulgarian Maks are starting at $200 in the North East and the EG, Miltex, Norincos, and Russian commercials are all at $250+++ if you can find one.
Can't speak for Texas, but in my part of the country there isn't much worth owning for under $200 in the way of guns. The Mak is about it.

 

[David4516]

"The grips were the Bulgarian style w/ the left thumb rest"

Thats the same grip that came with my Mak, and I can say it is the WORST girp I've seen for a Mak. I picked up some "red-star" grips from E-bay right after I get my Mak and have been happy with them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3614315322&category=36258

I also tried the rubber peirce grips but they made my Makarov too 'fat', it is my carry gun and if I wanted a fat gun for carry I wouldn't have gotten a Mak...

Anyway, if I were you I'd get the Mak, and find different girps for it. You won't be sorry, these are fine handguns. I have been very happy with mine, I've got thosands for rounds thur it, and haven't had a jam yet. For me the most important thing in a carry handgun is reliability, because your life might depend on it and it better 'go bang' when you pull the trigger. I am confident that the Makarov will 'go bang', every time...

I'm not sure what these guys are talking about when they complain about the Makarovs recoil. I find it to be fairly light, and often shoot my Makarov with one hand (sometimes I even shoot it left-handed) with no problems. But recoil is in the mind. For some people a .45 kicks like a mule, for others it doesn't kick at all, so it depends on the person. If you've done alot of shooting, chances are you won't find recoil a problem with the Mak...

The only problem I'd see with a lady and a Makarov is that the slide is not so easy to pull back, that could cause some problems... but otherwise it should be fine. Makarovs seem to fit well in smaller hands (I've got small hands for a guy, and I find the Makarov fits well in my hands).

 

[Ironbarr]

My Bulgie fitted with Pearce is my daily IWB carry piece. I've had no problems, and rectified the "snappy" recoil by changing to a 21 lb. spring (the stock appears to be 17 lb; a 19 lb is also available (http://www.makarov.com). I've used various ammo (S&B, Silver Bear and others - FMJ/HP) - no fails.

The Makarov was created as a field pistol for the army/police (urban and rural) and was used for some 40/50 years (again, makarov.com can provide historic material). Simple (26 parts IIRC), dependable, not a "Hangar Queen" needing constant attention. Mine came w/2 mags and a service holster (I've never used this). I modified an Uncle Mikes IWB for medium revolver by fitting it to the Mak and opening the muzzle end. This allows the Mak to sit low (I hate these "high riders"), requiring a finger tip touch to start a draw. I feel very safe with this DA/SA, solid safety, and floating firing pin arrangement. I carry 8+1 daily.

I also have a Falco double harness shoulder rig in beautiful brown leather (via makarov.com) for winter wear and long automobile trips. Tailored for the Mak it has adjustable straps, it's reasonably comfortable, and the Mak is "right there". Also has double mag pouch. So, with the belt mag pouch, the double, one in the Mak, and one round in the pipe, I'm assured of a thirty-three (33) round availability. More than enough, I expect, to extricate from a bad situation ... well, hopefully.

Breakdown is a bit different (blowback) and for me sometimes hard to get the slide on with this spring. It shoots better than I do; fits just right... nobody yet has called me on printing.

I have no experience with Bersa.

The above is FYI.

-Andy

 

[Caseless]

I have a Bulgarian Makarov I bought new a year ago.
I have gone thru 2000 rounds of 9mm Mak ammo with my Bulgarian Makarov. It fed both FMJ and hollow points reliably(Barnaul brand). The Bulgy target grip actually does what its name implies. I got some amazing groups at 25 yds freehand the first time I shot my Mak. Of course, the sharp recoil really surprised me. I solved the recoil issue with a Wolff 19 Ib. recoil spring and slim rubber "carry" grip called Mekawrap; both from www.makarov.com. The slide may be very hard to pull back for a child or someone with wrist injuries, but doesn't pose a problem for any adult.
In a word, I trust my Bulgy Mak enough for use in a self defense situation.

 

[Double Maduro]

I bought a Mak a couple weeks ago and took it to the range after giving it a detail strip and clean.

All I can say is "WOW".

I fired 50 rounds through it of russian hp. I kept them all in the black and most in the 8-9 and 10 ring. The sharp edges, grip screw hole and recoil were unnoticeable. I didn't even mind loading the mags, actually easier than my Ruger MKII. The only gripe I have is the Mag release. I think I will be putting something through the hole to give me better control.

Get the one that feels the best and shoots the best for you. If you are the one who will be the primary user it should fit you. If your wife cannot shoot the gun you choose effectively you should get her one she can. Gee, a 2 gun household, what could be wrong with that?

DM

 

[makdaddy03]

Makarov all the way!! I have'nt seen a Bersa go 2000 rds without a jam. Maks Rule.

My 380acp Mak has 2000rds no failures.

My old Bersa Bang, jam, bang, jam,etc.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I have a Bulgarian Mak with ~400 rounds through it. The only malf was one failure of the slide to lock back after firing the final shot in a magazine. No FTFs or FTEs. I find it quite accurate.

I put Pearce grips on it and find that I don't feel the screw hole when I shoot.

I've read that the Bersas are good guns but have no first hand experience with them. Based on my experience with my Mak, as well as my dad's, I can recommend the gun without reservation. IMO, the best value in a semiauto handgun that's suitable for self defense is a Bulgarian Makarov.

 

[BowStreetRunner]

Man, this Mak VS Bersa showdown happens often doesnt it?
hehe
I love my Mak!
BSR

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I like 'em both.

Best.

 

[blue86buick]

I just picked up a Bersa thursday, and shot 50 rounds friday. Overall, i quite like it. I shot about 20 rounds of UMC and 30 rounds of CCI Blazer, neither gave me any problems. AFA accuracy goes, I just wanted to shoot my new gun. I didn't bother putting up any targets, so I can't really tell ya. This next week sometime I'll do some target shooting. Recoil isn't bad at all either. Also, a friend that was with me said he really liked it too. I'd like to get a Makarov eventually (i hear a lot about them), and will prolly get it in .380 so I'm just buying 1 size ammo.

 

[JohnKSa]

I've never noticed the hole in the grip. That said, the Pearce Grip makes a BIG difference in the comfort level. If you can tolerate the increased size, go for it. They're also quite cheap (under $10 IIRC), so you're not out a bunch if you decide to switch back to the original grip.