jim in Anchorage
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- Feb 28, 2009
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tark
Do those guns have to be serial numbered and somehow registered with the gov?
Do those guns have to be serial numbered and somehow registered with the gov?
Hi, Jim. Certain conditions must be met before you can make your own firearm.tark
Do those guns have to be serial numbered and somehow registered with the gov?
Bold is incomplete. You must have a type 07 Federal Firearms License (manufacturer's license). Your run-of-the-mill dealer/gunsmith Type 01 FFL is insufficient for manufacturing. (That actually includes assembling from parts with the intent to sell.)Hi, Jim. Certain conditions must be met before you can make your own firearm.
You must be legally entitled to own a firearm in the first place. You cannot make an NFA firearm. The gun you make must be for your own use. You can't make a gun for someone else without an FFL. I'm pretty sure they can be passed on to your kids. Not sure if serial #s are a requirement or not, but mine are all serial numbered. (1) I'm not really sure if there is a limit on how many guns you can make. Someone with more knowledge of the law may weigh in.
There is no requirement to register them with anyone, as far as I know, at least at the federal level.
Quite right, I just couldn't remember what type of FFL was the manufacturer's licence so I just said "FFL." I was partially correct, I guess.Bold is incomplete. You must have a type 07 Federal Firearms License (manufacturer's license). Your run-of-the-mill dealer/gunsmith Type 01 FFL is insufficient for manufacturing. (That actually includes assembling from parts with the intent to sell.)
Excellent info bullzeye8 ! Thanks for posting it, it clarified a couple of points I wasn't sure of. So I CAN sell one of my guns (not that I want to) if I didn't make it with the intent of selling it. And I thought you were required to put a serial# on the gun but it isn't required.
I'm hoping some of the guys making their own from scratch guns will weigh in here. I seem to remember a 1/2 scale AR that someone was building that was incredible! What I saw was the work of a Master Machinist, far above the skills required to make simple single shot guns like mine.
One advantage in using relatively soft steel is that it will stretch and bend, rather than crack or shatter, most of the time. This is a general, not an absolute, rule.
With 1045, I would strongly suggest case hardening it.The three pistols have no heat treated parts. The breech blocks and hammers on them are 1045. When you go this route, you must make the contact surfaces on the load bearing parts quite large, to absorb the stress of firing. I made my own head space gauges for all three. None of them has stretched or increased head space at all. One advantage in using relatively soft steel is that it will stretch and bend, rather than crack or shatter, most of the time. This is a general, not an absolute, rule. I don't shoot the pistols a lot, although the 45 PITA has had several hundred rounds through it. Most of them were black powder, which isn't exactly high pressure ammo. It does like a 385 grain 45-70 bullet ahead of a case full of RX-7, which comes out at about 18 grains. It has very little recoil or noise and I doubt that it is getting more that 600 or 700 FPS. Sure does ring a gong, though!
Something that most people don't know or don't fully understand is that that the assembly of parts is also considered "manufacturing" in the eye of the ATF.Quite right, I just couldn't remember what type of FFL was the manufacturer's licence so I just said "FFL." I was partially correct, I guess.
For those truly interested in gun design, I strongly suggest reading "The Machine Gun" by Lt Col George Chinn, USMCRlong post full of good information . . .
PITA stands for "pain in the you know what" I called it that because cutting the 45-70 cases down to 1 1/4" is exactly that. I also had to modify a set of 45-70 reloading dies in order to reload for it.Btw, what is a 45 PITA?
MachIVshooter, thank you for the excellent info! I will learn a lot today, I would think. By actual measurement, the load bearing surface on the 45PITA, where the breech block pushes against the hammer, is 5/8" X 3/8". The pins are 1/2 inch in diameter, and each sidewall on the receiver is 3/8" thick. Pins themselves are drill bit shanks, so I know THEY are hard I have made a headspace gauge, of sorts, to test for spring or deformation of any parts. When I chamber the gauge and close the breech block and carefully lower the hammer, it will come within 3/8" of touching the firing pin. If it ever comes any closer, or reaches the firing pin I will know something is wrong. Something has yielded to stress. So far so good.
I am learning a lot from your posts! Thank you so much!! I am a rank amateur when it comes to metallurgy, which means I probably shouldn't be making guns with non-heat treated metals in the first place. But my pistols have never had more than the very mildest of loads run through them. I knew that with the centerfire rifles I would have to have the parts heat treated as the stresses would be enormous. That 45-70 was proved with a 500 grain JSP seated in the leade with enough room behind it for a 65 grain charge of RX-7. I used a Remington 45-70 case. They have the thickest brass. The bullet was actually seated ahead of the case, in the same position as it would be in with a 458 round. The gun ate it with no problem.Oh, I didn't mean to imply that your bearing surfaces were insufficient. That was more a general statement to all who are considering this hobby to be mindful of the mechanical properties of the materials being used, and design accordingly (with a decent safety margin).
As for HSS twist drills as pins, they'll do the duty, but remember that they are through hardened with a hard temper (Rc 60+), which is great for a cutting tool, and they have high shear strength, but they are also brittle, so don't deal with shock loading well, which will be present if there is any play in your arrangement. That's why I suggest spring temper music wire, which has medium hardness (~45 Rc) with very high toughness. Or case hardened pins, which are very hard on the outside, but have a much softer core, so won't snap like a through hardened pin.
That's also one of the advantages to steels like 8620, which takes a double heat treat. The yield strength is actually lower than 4140, 1045 and a lot of other heat treated medium and high carbon steels, but that initial through hardening followed by case hardening gives you a very tough part with a very hard case. This is the alloy used for AR barrel extensions, M60 machine gun bolts and many other critical firearm parts. I used 8620 for the bolt in my 9mm pack rifle.
There's always a balance in wear resistance (hardness) and toughness with gun parts. One way to get around having to heat treat is to use existing tools. Generally somewhat difficult to work with, but that tricky heat treatment is already done. Some of the internal parts on my builds are cut from production chisels and punches, which are treated to medium-high hardness and high toughness, so they resist wear and take impacts well.
Actually, M60 bolts are made from 9310.. . . steels like 8620, . . . This is the alloy used for M60 machine gun bolts . . .