Yoda
Member
Item in the Northwest Florida Daily News (Fort Walton Beach/Destin area):
FORT WALTON BEACH -- An Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office deputy who responded to a call about a disturbance in progress found a 20-year-old Navarre man who told him he had a Glock under his driver's seat.
The deputy could also see the gun, according to the incident report.
The man told him that he'd had the gun in his glovebox when he stopped to give someone a ride. Before allowing the individual in his car, he moved the weapon so it wouldn't be close to the individual.
He did not have a concealed gun permit for the Glock, which was purchased at a local pawn shop. The Glock was loaded.
(here's the link: http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/seat_11162___article.html/glock_beach.html)
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OK, for those of you who aren't from Florida, our state laws allow people who are not otherwise prohibited from having a gun to keep one, loaded, in the glovebox. Moving the gun away from where a hitch-hiker could gain access to it would appear to be a prudent measure, and I think the arrest could be fought under the doctrine of "competing harms." It all depends on exactly what the charge was. If the hitch-hiker was a minor, then one could argue that Section 790.174 (safe storage) could be read as REQUIRING him to move the gun.
It's very possible the cop is off base here, although there may be a technical violation.
The next county over, in Defuniak Springs, I once got into a debate with a city policeman about the specific requirements that must be met in order to carry a hangun in a car. He insisted that if the driver had to perform "three or more distinct acts" to gain control of the gun, he was OK, but otherwise, this cop would arrest him. This sounded to me to be completely made up. The laws just don't support such a supposition.
Here are the two applicable laws:
Florida Section 790.25(5), "Possession in Private Conveyance," reads, "... it is lawful and is not a violation of s 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense of other lawful purposes within the interior of a private conveyance, without a liicense, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use... This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons..."
Section 790.001(17), "Definitions," is more specific. It says, " 'Securely encased' means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."
It is this last part where the officer and I disagreed. He said that the semi-colon (";") meant "and," thus a gun had to be in a glove box AND in a snapped holster with the holster in a locked case. I tried to explain to him that anyone with a grade-school understanding of the English language would know that the semi-colon meant "or." He said that I was wrong, and he brought in another officer who agreed with him, and the two of them assured me that I'd be arrested if I didn't comply with THEIR understanding of the law.
I guess there's a lot of lessons there. One of the most important is, " It's not what the law says that's going to cost you a lot of lawyer fees; it's what the arresting officer THINKS the law says that's going to cost you."
- - - Yoda
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Blame Congress
FORT WALTON BEACH -- An Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office deputy who responded to a call about a disturbance in progress found a 20-year-old Navarre man who told him he had a Glock under his driver's seat.
The deputy could also see the gun, according to the incident report.
The man told him that he'd had the gun in his glovebox when he stopped to give someone a ride. Before allowing the individual in his car, he moved the weapon so it wouldn't be close to the individual.
He did not have a concealed gun permit for the Glock, which was purchased at a local pawn shop. The Glock was loaded.
(here's the link: http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/seat_11162___article.html/glock_beach.html)
------------
OK, for those of you who aren't from Florida, our state laws allow people who are not otherwise prohibited from having a gun to keep one, loaded, in the glovebox. Moving the gun away from where a hitch-hiker could gain access to it would appear to be a prudent measure, and I think the arrest could be fought under the doctrine of "competing harms." It all depends on exactly what the charge was. If the hitch-hiker was a minor, then one could argue that Section 790.174 (safe storage) could be read as REQUIRING him to move the gun.
It's very possible the cop is off base here, although there may be a technical violation.
The next county over, in Defuniak Springs, I once got into a debate with a city policeman about the specific requirements that must be met in order to carry a hangun in a car. He insisted that if the driver had to perform "three or more distinct acts" to gain control of the gun, he was OK, but otherwise, this cop would arrest him. This sounded to me to be completely made up. The laws just don't support such a supposition.
Here are the two applicable laws:
Florida Section 790.25(5), "Possession in Private Conveyance," reads, "... it is lawful and is not a violation of s 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense of other lawful purposes within the interior of a private conveyance, without a liicense, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use... This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons..."
Section 790.001(17), "Definitions," is more specific. It says, " 'Securely encased' means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."
It is this last part where the officer and I disagreed. He said that the semi-colon (";") meant "and," thus a gun had to be in a glove box AND in a snapped holster with the holster in a locked case. I tried to explain to him that anyone with a grade-school understanding of the English language would know that the semi-colon meant "or." He said that I was wrong, and he brought in another officer who agreed with him, and the two of them assured me that I'd be arrested if I didn't comply with THEIR understanding of the law.
I guess there's a lot of lessons there. One of the most important is, " It's not what the law says that's going to cost you a lot of lawyer fees; it's what the arresting officer THINKS the law says that's going to cost you."
- - - Yoda
===============
Blame Congress
But the other times, no way.. I'll call em a cop if they look like they're in trouble.. But they aint gettin in my car unless it's a grave health emergency..
