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Man arrested for Glock under seat

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Yoda, Sep 17, 2008.

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  1. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    Item in the Northwest Florida Daily News (Fort Walton Beach/Destin area):

    FORT WALTON BEACH -- An Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office deputy who responded to a call about a disturbance in progress found a 20-year-old Navarre man who told him he had a Glock under his driver's seat.

    The deputy could also see the gun, according to the incident report.

    The man told him that he'd had the gun in his glovebox when he stopped to give someone a ride. Before allowing the individual in his car, he moved the weapon so it wouldn't be close to the individual.

    He did not have a concealed gun permit for the Glock, which was purchased at a local pawn shop. The Glock was loaded.

    (here's the link: http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/seat_11162___article.html/glock_beach.html)

    ------------

    OK, for those of you who aren't from Florida, our state laws allow people who are not otherwise prohibited from having a gun to keep one, loaded, in the glovebox. Moving the gun away from where a hitch-hiker could gain access to it would appear to be a prudent measure, and I think the arrest could be fought under the doctrine of "competing harms." It all depends on exactly what the charge was. If the hitch-hiker was a minor, then one could argue that Section 790.174 (safe storage) could be read as REQUIRING him to move the gun.

    It's very possible the cop is off base here, although there may be a technical violation.

    The next county over, in Defuniak Springs, I once got into a debate with a city policeman about the specific requirements that must be met in order to carry a hangun in a car. He insisted that if the driver had to perform "three or more distinct acts" to gain control of the gun, he was OK, but otherwise, this cop would arrest him. This sounded to me to be completely made up. The laws just don't support such a supposition.

    Here are the two applicable laws:

    Florida Section 790.25(5), "Possession in Private Conveyance," reads, "... it is lawful and is not a violation of s 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense of other lawful purposes within the interior of a private conveyance, without a liicense, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use... This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons..."

    Section 790.001(17), "Definitions," is more specific. It says, " 'Securely encased' means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."

    It is this last part where the officer and I disagreed. He said that the semi-colon (";") meant "and," thus a gun had to be in a glove box AND in a snapped holster with the holster in a locked case. I tried to explain to him that anyone with a grade-school understanding of the English language would know that the semi-colon meant "or." He said that I was wrong, and he brought in another officer who agreed with him, and the two of them assured me that I'd be arrested if I didn't comply with THEIR understanding of the law.

    I guess there's a lot of lessons there. One of the most important is, " It's not what the law says that's going to cost you a lot of lawyer fees; it's what the arresting officer THINKS the law says that's going to cost you."

    - - - Yoda

    ===============

    Blame Congress
     
  2. hexidismal

    hexidismal Member

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    One big problem I can think of though. I could be wrong about this.. but isn't it illegal to pick up a hitchhiker in the first place ? ( unless rendering aid due to accident or injury)

    If I'm right about that, then you're saying his defense should be justifiable by saying he was compelled to break the law, however good his intentions, due to the fact that he was better preparing to break another law .. not such a good defense if you ask me
     
  3. tigre

    tigre Member

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    Hitchhiking is apparently legal in Florida as long as you're not on the Interstate and aren't actually standing in the road. But the point remains that the guy didn't have to pick up a hitchhiker, especially when he knew in advance that he'd have to break the law regarding gun storage in a vehicle to do so.
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    What was the disturbance?
     
  5. LWGN

    LWGN Member

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    It is NOT illegal to pick up hitchhikers in Florida, provided they are not on "limited access highways" , such as interstates.

    Florida is fairly specific in their laws relating to highways and pedestrians, partly because there is such a large elderly population in the state. Hitchhiking is legal if not on a main highway (interstate system, etc.) and the hitchhiker is standing on the shoulder.

    Read the complete laws below.


    Title XXIII MOTOR VEHICLES
    Chapter 316. STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL

    316.130 Pedestrian obedience to traffic control devices and traffic regulations.

    (3) Where sidewalks are provided, no pedestrian shall, unless required by other circumstances, walk along and upon the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic.

    (4) Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the shoulder on the left side of the roadway in relation to the pedestrian's direction of travel, facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction.

    (5) No person shall stand in the portion of a roadway paved for vehicular traffic for the purpose of soliciting a ride, employment, or business from the occupant of any vehicle.

    (18) No pedestrian shall walk upon a limited access facility or a ramp connecting a limited access facility to any other street or highway; however, this subsection does not apply to maintenance personnel of any governmental subdivision.

    (19) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable pursuant to chapter 318 as either a pedestrian violation or, if the infraction resulted from the operation of a vehicle, as a moving violation.

    318.14 Noncriminal traffic infractions; exception; procedures.

    (1) ... any person cited for a violation of chapter 316 ... is charged with a noncriminal infraction and must be cited for such an infraction and cited to appear before an official. If another person dies as a result of the noncriminal infraction, the person cited may be required to perform 120 community service hours under s. 316.027(4), in addition to any other penalties.

    § 316.003(42). Definitions

    (19) LIMITED ACCESS FACILITY.--A street or highway especially designed for through traffic and over, from, or to which owners or occupants of abutting land or other persons have no right or easement, or only a limited right or easement, of access, light, air, or view by reason of the fact that their property abuts upon such limited access facility or for any other reason. Such highways or streets may be parkways from which trucks, buses, and other commercial vehicles are excluded; or they may be freeways open to use by all customary forms of street and highway traffic.

    (42) ROADWAY.--That portion of a highway improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the berm or shoulder. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways, the term "roadway" as used herein refers to any such roadway separately, but not to all such roadways collectively.

    (53) STREET OR HIGHWAY.--
    (a) The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;

    (b) The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

    (c) Any area, such as a runway, taxiway, ramp, clear zone, or parking lot, within the boundary of any airport owned by the state, a county, a municipality, or a political subdivision, which area is used for vehicular traffic but which is not open for vehicular operation by the general public; or

    (d) Any way or place used for vehicular traffic on a controlled access basis within a mobile home park recreation district which has been created under s. 418.30 and the recreational facilities of which district are open to the general public.
     
  6. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    He could have simply NOT picked up the hitch-hiker and remained both safe and in compliance with the law.

    The fact that this was an option which he decided not to chose leads me to believe that he's in trouble.
     
  7. jaholder1971

    jaholder1971 Member

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    RULE:

    NEVER PICK UP HITCHHIKERS!

    If they're carrying illegal drugs, weapons, etc., then so are you.
     
  8. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    No such law re: hitch-hikers in Florida

    As long as you're not on an interstate, there's no law against picking up hitch-hikers in Florida. (There may not even be a law against it on the interstates.)

    I've had some of my most interesting adventures after picking up hitch-hikers. One thing, though. I never suggest they put on their seat belt. If things go wrong, I've got a seat belt and an airbag and they get a concrete barrier.

    I've picked up a guy who admitted right away that he had just gotten out of jail and was trying to get home, a guy who claimed that he had invented bar codes, two ladies who begged me to take them 200 miles out of my way so they could rush to the side of a crippled cousin who had been abadoned by his parents, a guy who had no idea how he had gotten where he was (all I remember was being at a party in another town), and so on.

    The only really scary thing that ever happened was when I was stopped at a light and a guy JUMPED IN my car and started telling a BS story about being broke down and needing a new fanbelt and even though it was Christmas Day he knew a shop that was open but he'd need a few dollars because he left his wallet with his family in the broke down car... I didn't see a weapon, and as I said, if things went south, I was prepared to sacrafice the van (it was paid for and had over 200,000 miles on it) and launch him into the nearest overpass piling. Eventually, it just got too odd, so I stopped, gave him $5 and wished him "Merry Christmas." he ran off without even saying, "Thank you."

    - - - Yoda

    ============

    Blame Congress
     
  9. hexidismal

    hexidismal Member

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    That's an awfully good question. There is likely a great deal more to the story if the man was somehow involved in a "disturbance in progress".


    EDIT: Oh , and fair enough in regards to the legality of picking up hitchhikers. I did say I might not be right about that in the earlier post , it was just a thought.
     
  10. VPLthrneck

    VPLthrneck Member

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    The whole article is to vague. It makes a mention of a "disturbance in progress" but then jumps staight to "man with a gun." It would be nice to know what the disturbace is prior to disagreeing with the outcome.

    I do like the comments on the article page: several people pointing out that this paper printed the names of the CCW holders in Okaloosa County. To me that's a bigger story than a vague article about a police arrest.
     
  11. ColinthePilot

    ColinthePilot Member

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    When I lived in FL, I kept it in my center console because it kept it accessible while keeping it concealed and IAW the law.

    And I'm not dumb enough to pick up hitchhikers.
     
  12. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    That cop has a grave misunderstanding of semi-colons. From his understanding it would have to be in a glove compartment and holster and gun case and zippered gun case. What?!! It makes much more since when the semi-colon means "or."

    He also must have completely over looked this part: "This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons..."

    "In favor" not against! I support cops like I support the troops, but some of the biggest socialist robots are cops. Keep them in check.
     
  13. Mickstix

    Mickstix Member

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    He's probably toast.. They'll say he didnt have to pick up a stranger/hitch-hiker.. On the deal about the semicolon meaning "and".. That cop obviously failed 5th grade english.. But like you said, it's not what the law says, but what the cop "thinks" the law says, that'll cost you mucho $$$...
     
  14. Yoda

    Yoda Member

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    You would have picked up the hitch-hikers, too...

    For those of you who say, "Never pick up hitch-hikers," let me emphasize that in the particular cases I mentioned above, I think most of you would have done the same.

    The guy who admitted that he'd just gotten out of jail was walking down a lonely road in 98 degrees heat and 98 percent humidity, and from his location, I knew he had walked about 3 miles and had another 8 to go before he could get a drink. If someone didn't help, he'd be in real trouble, medical-wise.

    The guy who couldn't remember how he got to Fort Walton Beach, after what must have been one hell of a party in Crestview, was stick out in a horrendous thunderstorm with lightning all around.

    The ladies with the BS story about the crippled cousin were on a dark section of I-75 (south of Wildwood) after midnight, and they seemed to be frantic for someone to stop and help. Since there had just been a local Tampa news item about two other girls who had been abducted, raped, and dumped along a highway, I felt the imperative to check on them outweighed the potential risk to me. I'm now pretty sure that they were actually trucker lap-lizards who had been dumped, and with good cause.

    And so on.... Most of the time, I'm sure they're giving me a story, but that guy who admitted that he'd just gotten out of jail, I believed him.

    Hitchikers leaving drugs in your car? Always a risk. But if we're (sometimes) ready to come to the aid of another with a gun, then why not with a car/ride?

    Anyone seen any windmills that need jousting?

    - - - Yoda

    =============
     
  15. Mickstix

    Mickstix Member

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    A couple of frantic women, at night, MAYBE! (If there cute) :D But the other times, no way.. I'll call em a cop if they look like they're in trouble.. But they aint gettin in my car unless it's a grave health emergency..
     
  16. Blackbeard

    Blackbeard Member

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    Was it a hitchhiker, or a hooker?
     
  17. jackdanson

    jackdanson Member

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    Not any streetwalkers in Ft. Walton from my exp. (that didn't sound good, but that's not how I meant it)

    I don't even like giving rides to people I work with, I'd be waaay to lazy to pick up a hitchiker.
     
  18. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Not my problem. A non-emergency on the part of a stranger does not constitute the necessity for me to compromise my safety.
     
  19. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Seems to me if the storage of the Glock did not meet the requirements specified in the law, he was in violation of it. He had two other choices, obvious to me anyway...

    Not pick up the hitchhiker or
    Lock the glovebox.

    Stupid action on his part and his reward for stupid action.
     
  20. wallask

    wallask Member

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    In all my 50+ years of driving, I have NEVER picked up a hitchhiker. I just don't trust anybody sticking their thumb out.
     
  21. tigre

    tigre Member

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    I've seen hitchhikers in all sorts of conditions, but haven't ever been even slightly tempted to pick any of them up. If they don't want to be out on the road in the heat or rain or at night, then they need to arrange their lives in such a way that they don't wind up there. &%$# happens, obviously, but I'm not going to risk my own safety trying to be responsible for complete strangers.

    I am curious Yoda, why you had your passenger door unlocked so someone could jump in. That's kind of scary, dude.
     
  22. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    :scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:
     
  23. XDKingslayer

    XDKingslayer member

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    Again, thank you for proving, once again, that the last person to ask about gun laws are Florida cops. He's absolutely wrong on this.

    Buy Gutmachers book on Florida gun laws. In fact, buy two and give one to your cop buddy. He needs to read it. Why police departments don't train their officers on this when it is so prevelant in Florida is beyond me. It's a false arrest and/or imprisonment lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I used to recommend keeping the booklet that comes with your concealed carry permit package in your glove box. But I have found out that the only thing worse than telling a cop he is wrong is proving he is wrong.

    The best person to ask for advice is a State or Assistant State Attorney from your local State's Attorney Office. They will do something the cops won't do. Pick up a statute book and read the damn thing...

    Now, one piece of info I'd like to know is, was the Glock in a holster under the seat? If so, his attorney should have a field day with this case.
     
  24. pbearperry

    pbearperry Member

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    This is another thread that does not contain all the info.What's the point?
     
  25. XDKingslayer

    XDKingslayer member

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    So what?

    That's the beauty about Florida. You can carry a holstered weapon any where in your car without a permit as long as it's not concealed on your person.
     
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