Quantcast

Florida Man Arrested for Constructive Possession of an SBR

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cleetus03, Sep 1, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I have a full stocked 18.5" pardner pump 12 gauge. If I also own a hacksaw am I in constructive possesion of a SBS?

    What if i have a saiga 7.62x39 and a vertical mill that i could mill a full auto sear out with, am I in constructive posession of a machinegun?

    As far as im concerned, charging a person with "constructive posession" should be about as legal as charging someone with "contemplative murder".
     
  2. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,022
    Location:
    The Dark Side of the Moon
    LEGAL? that depends on how much money he has to spend on his lawyers....

    STUPID? imho... yes
     
  3. w_houle

    w_houle Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    789
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    ... and how long would it take to turn a shoe lace into a machine gun? I guess I am in constructive possession of two machine guns.
     
  4. coyotehitman

    coyotehitman member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    558
    I have a better suggestion for him, man up and accept responsibility for your actions. Why is it oh so common on gun forums to suggest obtaining an attorney and dodging responsibility for your actions?

    And statements like this are why the libs put us in the Elmer Fudd category.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  5. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    No, your SUB-2000 is a rifle, not a pistol. If you put a vertical foregrip on a pistol it's an AOW. You can put a VFG on a rifle or shotgun and it's fine.
     
  6. cleetus03

    cleetus03 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Spuds, FL
    Here's another take on the story from the NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog;
     
  7. Warhawk83

    Warhawk83 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    719
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Well Coyote, I guess you can call me Elmer because I had the same thoughts as W Houle.
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    For a short time the ATF had a letter out from Tech Branch claiming that any 14 inch shoestring in America was an unregistered machine gun.

    If someone doubts it I'll go find a copy, it's posted in several places.

    As for all of this stuff, ATF has generally claimed that a case was "constructive possession" if someone had parts that had no other legitimate use.

    So, if you own an AR15 rifle AND pistol, then having a short upper wouldn't be a problem since you had a legitimate use for it.

    If however you only owned an AR15 pistol and you had a shoulder stock, there would be no legitimate combination of those parts so you're a criminal.

    Stupid yes, but that was their position for a long time. Don't know if that has changed post TC v US.

    They also continue to hold the position to this day that even if you DO convert a pistol to a rifle, you can never convert it back without going NFA.

    Now, this is a state case but I suspect they are using some of the ATF definitions as guidelines.
     
  9. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    Ruling:

    ATFShoeStringLetter.gif

    Reversal:

    ATFShoeStringLetterReversal.gif
     
  10. ants

    ants Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,710
    He wasn't merely in casual possession of those pieces.

    He advertised them for sale as a single group.

    He just made it too easy for the sheriff to do his job under Florida law.
    Now, by posting his story, he's making it too easy for the prosecutor to do his job.
     
  11. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Heh heh, thanks freakshow10mm.

    That first letter always makes me laugh.
     
  12. cleetus03

    cleetus03 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Spuds, FL
    So if I sold this westley-richards-hammerless-boxlock-double-barrel-shotgun.jpg + this qHacksaw.jpg together would it be considered constructive possession?
     
  13. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    13,146
    No, he didn't. It's not the Sheriff's job to arrest people for doing legal stuff. He made it *possible* for the Sheriff to attempt to overstep his authority and wrongfully interpret a law. Please re-read my post - I'll re-post it here for your convenience, with some added parts for clarification:

    So why are we jumping on gun owners for doing LEGAL stuff, or *most likely* legal stuff, just because LEO agency A or B take the minority (probably incorrect) position that it's illegal? :scrutiny:
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  14. deadin

    deadin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    Ocean Shores, WA
    I seem to remember that the SC ruling was very pointed and applied only to the TC gun in question. It will take another round of challenges to expand on that decision.
     
  15. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,524
    The reason these silly regulations are on the books is because the original NFA also included HANDGUNS. Due to public pressure they were removed before the bill became law but provisions to keep rifles from being cut down into concealable handgun substitutes were not. Also much of the NFA was aimed at the Thompson gun and one of its salient features is a removable butt stock.
     
  16. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,951
    No, it ruled that in order for a SBR to be a SBR it needed to be completely assembled. Since the TC kit was not completely assembled in a SBR configuration it did not fit the definition of a SBR per federal law. This applies to all firearms.
     
  17. cleetus03

    cleetus03 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Spuds, FL
    I'm so confused now, can anyone verify or explain this?

     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  18. ServiceSoon

    ServiceSoon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Michiana
    I give us much credence to this guys prosecution as I would somebody being arrested for being an unacceptable race. The law is incomprehensible. Yes, I understand the law is real and that there are real consequences for not following them, that's why I have an NFA trust.

    When are we going to end firearm racism?
     
  19. rocky branch

    rocky branch Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    Midwest
    Many years ago when they were more regulated, I bought an absolute mint Broomhandle rig with matching numbered stock, leather, and tool from the vet who brought it home.

    I showed it to the wrong person and the ATF showed up.
    I was going into the army at the time and had to sign a statement of abandonment to avoid prosecution.

    Sadly, this guy was very foolish.
     
  20. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,130
    Location:
    Sterling, VA
    Remind me not to go to Florida with a double barrel and travel with a hacksaw.:cuss:
     
  21. Digitalage03

    Digitalage03 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Hello guys its me Jesus Amador with the so called illegal sbr

    I saw that you guy posted threads on what happened to me and i gotta say some of you guys know your stuff, that is exactly what happend, constructive intent is bull**** there is no such thing in the statutes. and federal law is not violated. could they enforce it? eh if your al capone and cant get you for murder they might try. But other than that 3weeks after the arrest charges where dissmissed and the gun is back in our possession with stock, kgrip and all, man was that detective PISSED!! ha i love it. so much for his 30+ man 2 week investigation on the matter. Way to use our tax dollars by the way. By the way its posted back on floridaguntrader.com if any one wanted to see the picture of it.

    OR should i sbr it and register a suppressor for it and take it to the lee county police range instead of selling it? What can i say i am a public servant i push and push against these stupid make shift laws so others dont have to. Funny part is i knew about 90% that he was a cop. i did not surprise me that they would arrest a person on a charge that does not exist. Not to mention i still remember his **** eating grin of the captain in charge of the investigation. He would not even talk to me when i requested to speak to him yet he was more than eager to talk when a signed order from the judge went on their desk when it came to retrieval of property.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  22. BULLSI

    BULLSI Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    MICHIGAN
    Digit welcome aboard.

    I am glad that it all worked out for you and that you had won your case.

    Feels good I bet.

    Haveing a loaded shotgun pointed at your head probably wasnt the best feeling though.
     
  23. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    West Palm Beach Florida
    Thank you for the update. I am glad all is well for you now.
     
  24. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    380
    Hang on a minute though. Isn't there a significant difference [diameter, locking lugs] between a AR pistol buffer tube and a AR rifle buffer tube? Did the pistol in question have a pistol or rifle BT? Because if it was a pistol BT then it wouldn't qualify as 'easily or readily convertible', correct?
     
  25. 61chalk

    61chalk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Indiana
    I just read this entire thread for the first time...sure glad to hear the ending an you got your gun back. Isn't there some real crime out there for cops to do.....sounds like typical non-eduacated bully's with badges...an thats the sad part...as tax payers we deserve better, an I know there are good cops out there....somewhere.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice