Marilyn vos Savant on suing gun manufacturers

[boofus]

I wouldn't worry too much about the median IQ going up. The average person knows more about American Idol and the Simpsons than the Bill of Rights, American History, Basic Math and the English language. Plus improvement in the public schooling system is no where to be seen on the horizon.

 

[Art Eatman]

boofus, there is no correlation between ability to learn and the subject material which is learned. Nor with actual education in the schools, for that matter.

Many a very bright kid has been bored to tears with school, and wound up learning very little--which was already known to be a problem in the 1930s. Some things don't get better with age, do they?

Art

 

[boofus]

 

[DougCxx]

If you got into Mensa by the skin of your teeth, and the median IQ rose just by say 0.1, you'd be out on your smart ass.

...Yea, then you'd be left standing outside the Mensa club on the sidewalk, holding a sign that says "will solve sudoku for food".....

I also agree her answer is wrong: the rationale of burgers and cigarettes is the same. Both may or may not be unhealthy, but everything presented for consumption isn't required to be healthy, nor are you required to live in a healthy manner. So the main issue is if the makers of these things had misrepresented the risks of consumption/use (-and yes, I know that years ago, they used to say right out that cigarettes were healthy to smoke--but in at least the last 3 decades, this has not been claimed).

As to the issue of firearms--the standard is the same for other products--the manufacturer is not liable for use unless (the gun) contains a defect that makes it unreasonably risky or functional.
~

 

[Kamicosmos]

...IQ is best regarded as a capability for learning.

Precisely, Art. An IQ score is like a gas tank in your car: Sure, your car has a 20 gallon tank. But that doesn't mean the tank actually has 20 gallons in it at any particular time.

 

[Art Eatman]

 

[IllHunter]

Club?

Was it W.C.Fields or Groucho who said " I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member" (Or some such)

 

[71Commander]

It was Groucho. I have the same attitude. My wife is a member of Mensa.

Originally Posted by ArmedBear
If you got into Mensa by the skin of your teeth, and the median IQ rose just by say 0.1, you'd be out on your smart ass.

There is no retesting proceedures in place. Once you're a member and your dues are current, you're always a member.

 

[GunnySkox]

Despite the miniscule "hey, you can use guns without hurting people!" line in that, did anyone else even bother to read the last sentence of her response? "Tobacco cannot [be used properly or without abuse]." What a crock of BS.

See? Smartest person in the world says you can't smoke a cigar to celebrate a special occasion or enjoy the occasional cigarette, or maybe puff a pipe to enjoy good tobacco without abusing it or doing something improper. What a gimpwit.



~GnSx
For the record, and in the interest of full disclosure, I hate the stench of cigarette smoke, and I loathe cigarette smokers.

"For any enjoyable activity, there is a greater and opposing political action group." ~GunnySkox's Third Law of Political Motion

 

[RyanM]

The distribution above appears to be non-skewed. This surprises me. Let's assume that for normal healthy individuals the distribution would be non-skewed.

By definitition, the IQ score is non-skewed.

If 100,000 really stupid people with IQs below 75 suddenly appeared, the IQ score would be adjusted and everyone would suddenly find themselves several points higher.

It's not an objective test, it's purely subjective.

 

[71Commander]

DougCxx

This cover's for you. It's a real cover, not photoshopped.

 

[waterhouse]

Despite the miniscule "hey, you can use guns without hurting people!" line in that, did anyone else even bother to read the last sentence of her response? "Tobacco cannot [be used properly or without abuse]." What a crock of BS.

I agree.

TennTucker's magazine made me go dig up a rubik's cube. I doubt my IQ is high enough for Mensa, but I can still solve a cube pretty quickly

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

See? Smartest person in the world says you can't smoke a cigar to celebrate a special occasion or enjoy the occasional cigarette, or maybe puff a pipe to enjoy good tobacco without abusing it or doing something improper. What a gimpwit.

One of the many reasons why I am unimpressed with M v S. If she really exists and if she really writes those columns.

- NF

 

[boofus]

I can still solve a cube pretty quickly

I always thought that the IQ tests should have more spacial and picture pattern questions. Really all the standardized tests evaluate are math and language skills. They should have questions for puzzle solving, auditory skills and physical skills. Mozart was a prodigy with incredible musical ability and memory but I'd wager he would have flunked math and German bigtime.

If you can detail strip and reassemble a 1911 blindfolded, it should count for something.

 

[Art Eatman]

"If you can detail strip and reassemble a 1911 blindfolded, it should count for something."

Agreed.

Several of us in my high school ROTC class could even get it down to right at one minute, total time.

Except, of course, when some helpful soul would move one of the parts--which occasionally led to a demonstration of close quarters combat.

(Lordy! I hadn't thought about Colonel Orr and Colonel Parmalee in over fifty years!)

Art.

 

[rhubarb]

<satire>
I am a member of BORD. Our group has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human beauty for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature, characteristics and uses of good looks, and to promote stimulating social opportunities for its members. I got in by being voted Mr. Hayride 1984 at Booger Holler, Arkansas. Many of our members qualified by winning beauty pageants and such. In the case of an applicant who doesn't have such sterling credentials, there are exams of facial structure and body type that qualifies one as possessing the qualities of beauty necessary to be invited into our elite friendship. You will find that naturally handsome people are more inclined to be successful, less lonely, and more respected. You will also note that there are few left-handed people among our members. Bord, for you dummies out there, is Danish for table. We chose that as the title of our organization because we like to sit around the table and admire how beautiful we are.

You will be pleased to learn that most of our members, like those of Mensa, are members of our group for their own betterment and for the benefit and advancement of mankind. We rank and file members don't join to make ourselves feel like we are somehow better people than those hideously ugly trolls that aren't good enough for us.</satire>

I'm purty smort. I've seen enough highly intelligent fry cooks, cowpokes, roughnecks, bums, dopers, drunks, inmates, and mental patients though to convince me that it don't mean nothing to be smart. It don't give a person nor a person's opinion any more weight with me. So if Marybeth usted Savage says that something should be just so, should I agree with her just cause she's real smart?

 

[brickeyee]

Gee Beerslurpy, sounds like you had problems. Sorry.
Seems you want to discredit the tests without a while lot of backing.

"There are specialized tests you can take for the higher levels of intelligence, but the takers are obviously self-selected and they prep for the tests beforehand."

Why do you believe the takers are self selected?
You asked them about studying beforehand?
Yes, it is hard to measure the higher numbers accurately. Time to completion becomes a portion of the measurement. Regression analysis allows this to be extended to higher IQs. As I stated the error limits increase, but the results are still valid.
Well deisgned tests are remarkably accurate even across social and language barriers.

 

[Calumus]

First thing, TennTucker, you might want to edit your home address off your mailing label just for privacy's sake Second as for more intelligent kids being bored in school, I'll agree with that. During all my education through the end of 12th grade I only had two teachers that actually made an attempt to get me to stop coasting and make an effort. Those are the two I'll remember as long as I live because firstly, they were the only two "A's" I got in highschool, and second, they were the only two who did what I thought a teacher should do. Push. I always coasted in every other class and just got what I needed to get by, for the most part I would read the entire texts when we first got them and then just day dream through the rest of the semester, and this was at a higher end private school of about 350 students and a 300 person waiting list every year. I can't imagine what it would have been like at the public school in my town which is one of the lowest rated suburban schools in Jersey. All I can say is thank God for the S.A.T.'s they were the only reason I got into every school I applied to. As far as "abusing" tobacco, I think abuse is an over used word. Any time you are doing something that's not good for you, you are abusing. I went out and got drunk last night. Did I abuse the keg of Guiness? (well yeah, actually a little bit ) no, I used the stout in the way its meant to be used. I drink it, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Mission accomplished. Do I abuse Camel Wides every day? No, actually they are meant to be set aflame and inhaled from. Not abuse. Once again you have a case of people dumbing down a language for their own anti point of view. Armed Bear, as far as smoking effecting your mensa level IQ, you'll probably score better in a timed test if you use nicotine while you're taking it. Nicotine coats the synapses in your brain and is actually a more efficient conducter than the natural coating, which is why people feel a little dim-witted for a bit when they first stop smoking or when they haven't hade a butt in a while.. Anyway, I'm done my little rant. Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Use food, alcohol or guns as intended by the manufacturer (and
commonsense): no harm.

Use tobacco as intended by the manufacturer: health damage.

Yes, I speak as a reformed smoker. I too was once a bondage
slave of the demon weed Nick-o-tine but I casr off the chains
of the demon that bound me, to breath clean air as God and
Mother Nature intended. Ooops, Bump! darn, skipped
off my soap box.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have to sigh every time I hear someone, anyone, get on the "big tobacco must pay" bandwagon.

-It's a legal product
-Use is voluntary
-Society as a whole has known the health effects of tobacco use for well over a century

Those who voluntarily use this legal product even knowing what the negative health effects are should be able to sue the manufacturer why?

Brad

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Why? Good question for Marilyn.

When I smoked, I already knew from my granma Bessy it was not
good for my lungs, but I did so anyway, knowing that there were
risks. If I suffer for those risks, I took them on my own recognisance
and I would feel like a real idiot if I sued Big Tobacco, Little Tobacco
or Medium sized Tobacco FOR WHAT I DID TO MYSELF.

AND THE MONEY EXTORTED BY POLITICIANS AND LAWYERS HAS GONE
TO FINANCE PET PROJECTS OF THE POLITICIANS AND TO LINE THE
POCKETS OF THE LAWYERS, NOT TO HELP THE HEALTH PROBLEMS OF
SMOKERS and my keyboard just ran out of caps. . . .

 

[Cosmoline]

Tobacco CAN be used properly and without abuse.

I'm going to smoke a bowl of Frog Morton on the Town in honor of MENSA and all the completely stupid, screwed up genius IQ's I've known over the years.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

completely stupid, screwed up genius IQ's

As a completely stupid, screwed up genius card carrying Mensa
member, remeber me. Your advice on how to work the Mosin Nagant
safety was right on, thanks, I was doing it wrong.

I wonder, come to think of it, considering the relaxation and stress
relief traditionally associated with smoking, if it is possible that
smoking can benefit some people more than it may harm them?

Again, it comes down to individual choice and accepting responsibility
for that choice.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

I have to sigh every time I hear someone, anyone, get on the "big tobacco must pay" bandwagon.

Agreed. Big Tobacco didn't make me smoke, it was my dumb choice. I feel smarter now that I quit.

Where are these Mensa clubhouses? Do they have pool tables? Bars? I bet they don't even have ashtrays. Do Mensa members get discounts on stuff? What's the purpose?

Regards.

 

[boofus]

You really don't get anything for membership, except a magazine with some neat articles and puzzles. Or you can order their research materials on education and whatnot, pretty dry read.

There are also Special Interest Groups for everything from basketry to heavy metal music to religion to 2nd amendment.