checkmyswag
Member
USMC x 1911 = look for cover
They are both great if that's your thing.
Watch your lane.
They are both great if that's your thing.
Watch your lane.
Marine Special Operation Command Order 4000 Colt Rail Guns
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I'm sure Gen. Amos will read this thread and call up procurement and get them straightened out. They are probably just trying to make him look bad because he is the first non-grunt Commandant. But then, with the peta people outside the main gate at CamPen, he may be too busy to look for advice on weapons. Geez, they want Marines to stop being called Leathernecks!! LOL!! Semper Fi, Mac!!
Reloadron
Contributing Member
How about you stop with the BS unless you have something to toss on the table. USMC '69 to '79 with time in Nam using the .45 you seem to feel is a bad investment. So when were you in the service and what military weapons were you trained on? All is see is BS sans a knowledge of much. The regular Marines in the field who carry a pistol will have the M9 and only their SOG groups will carry the .45. Given a choice, personally I'll take the 1911 over the M9 anytime.
Spare me the bribe conspiracy unless you have something to back it up. Guessing you sure don't.
These are Marines, they don't keep cash under their desk, only secretaries or girlfriends.
Ron
bluethunder1962
Member
Is there a site you can go to to buy surplus guns from the military? Seem like now would be a good time to get one.
First guy has a smoke in his left hand holding the map. He is so cool he does not need trigger safety.
I laugh every time I hear someone say a 1911 or any all metal gun is better than a plastic gun because it has heft if you need to smack someone on the nose. Let your buddy hit you on the nose ever so lightly with his glock and try to tell him it wasn't hefty enough.
I laugh every time I hear someone say a 1911 or any all metal gun is better than a plastic gun because it has heft if you need to smack someone on the nose. Let your buddy hit you on the nose ever so lightly with his glock and try to tell him it wasn't hefty enough.
clem
Member
I heard that these puppies cost $5K plus, each!
Skylerbone
Member
Bullet drop difference between a 9mm 115 gr. Win. Silvertip and .45 ACP 185 gr. Silvertip is 1.4" @ 50 yds. I'll let you guess which has more energy at that distance and at practical distances like 15 yds. where the line of sight drop differential is .1"
Clearly some respondents are children of the plastic era, before which nothing worked...and history is little more than a fairy tale.
Clearly some respondents are children of the plastic era, before which nothing worked...and history is little more than a fairy tale.
I guess that from a proven record as that set by heroes like Alvin York, killing six German soldier in CQC with his 45 Colt Automatic 1911, its no wonder that the Marines have chosen the tried and true 45 acp 1911.
shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun
shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun
barneyrw
Member
<<"That first guy on the other hand... Needs a good smack on the head.">>
That pic is WWII, before all the safety stuff. He's the reason you are reading this in English and not German or Japanese, have a little respect. Besides, you try smacking him, and you'll be picking yourself up off the ground. There are different rules in combat. He's in a war, not at a shooting range. In Vietnam, if I had my 45 pulled, my finger was on the trigger and the safety was off. Actually, I routinely carried it on half cock with the safety off, just didn't like the looks of cocked and locked.
That pic is WWII, before all the safety stuff. He's the reason you are reading this in English and not German or Japanese, have a little respect. Besides, you try smacking him, and you'll be picking yourself up off the ground. There are different rules in combat. He's in a war, not at a shooting range. In Vietnam, if I had my 45 pulled, my finger was on the trigger and the safety was off. Actually, I routinely carried it on half cock with the safety off, just didn't like the looks of cocked and locked.
We are forgetting only MARSOC is getting these, not the entire Marine Corps. Recon has been carrying 1911s forever so it's a no brainer their "next of kin" gets them too. The Beretta M9s we had were garbage and I can tell you first hand the effectiveness of a 9mm ball round. And as lucky as I was I got to spend quite a bit of time around them while in the rear (8531 as a BMOS). I have two of my closest friends in MARSOC and while they haven't received them yet they are excited to get them.
Semper Fi.
0311/0331 02-06. Kill.
Semper Fi.
0311/0331 02-06. Kill.
Welcome home and thank you for your service!
barneyrw
Member
Welcome home and thank you for your service!
Thanks, but that's ancient history. It's the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans that deserve the credit now.
Thanks, but that's ancient history. It's the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans that deserve the credit now.
jogar80
Member
All veterans should be respected and given the credit they deserve, ancient or not.
Coal Dragger
member
I didn't enlist in Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and go play in the sandbox to get recognition from people. In fact it makes me kind of uncomfortable and I don't tell most people I know. It's none of their business anyway, and I get sick of answering questions.
clem
Member
"Thanks, but that's ancient history. It's the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans that deserve the credit now. "
barneyrw
And just what do you mean about this comment?
barneyrw
And just what do you mean about this comment?
barneyrw
Member
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
So they still use that phrase. (-:
So they still use that phrase. (-:
barneyrw
Member
And just what do you mean about this comment?
Nothing much, just saying the new vets deserve the praise now. Us older guys handed off the baton long ago.
Nothing much, just saying the new vets deserve the praise now. Us older guys handed off the baton long ago.
Except this is a different unit than CENTCOM that got the Kimbers. So I'm not sure your information is correct. In other words this is in additional to the DET-1 Kimbers that went to CENTCOM not a replacement.
paintballdude902
Member
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some guys need to remember this is MARSOC
im in AFSOC and we use m9's.... i have yet to find one that isnt close to being worn out. if i was a ground pounder in a high speed low drag unit you an bet your bottom dollar id want a newer gun.
think about 30 years of pistol qual after qual with shoddy cleaning then them being taken to the desert with all the sand being blown into it.
there was talk of us getting .45 sigs but budget cuts kicked in and we needed new ipads.....
im in AFSOC and we use m9's.... i have yet to find one that isnt close to being worn out. if i was a ground pounder in a high speed low drag unit you an bet your bottom dollar id want a newer gun.
think about 30 years of pistol qual after qual with shoddy cleaning then them being taken to the desert with all the sand being blown into it.
there was talk of us getting .45 sigs but budget cuts kicked in and we needed new ipads.....
RX-178
Member
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet, is the differences between typical infantry combat, and the kind of combat that people in an organization like MARSOC are likely to see.
In infantry combat, your goal (as a unit, not an individual) is to indentify a 'kill box' where the majority or entirety of the bad guys are, and methodically work over that box with small arms fire to (theoretically) maximize the probability of inflicting enemy casualties. That's why Marines still train to shoot out to 500 meters, since even though the 5.56 round is a mediocre performer at that distance, it's still effective in terms of infantry combat.
Well, it's pretty obvious after thinking about that a few moments, that a pistol in this environment is next to useless, so there's no real point in using a caliber other than NATO standard. Also, it's not like our infantry officer (likely the only guy WITH a pistol) is going to decide to close in on the bad guys on his own and take them out face-to-face with his sidearm. If he HAS to use his pistol, he's not really going to be using it in any different a manner than he would be his rifle, which makes high capacity at least somewhat relevant.
MARSOC on the other hand... The kind of fight they're likely to get into is much more similar to what any of us might train for on a defensive carbine course, or even a 3-gun stage that involves transitions. Actually identifying individual targets, and taking them out, and using the sidearm to stay in the fight if the carbine jams, or the magazine is expended. There's no reason not to absolutely LOVE the 1911 in this kind of environment.
In infantry combat, your goal (as a unit, not an individual) is to indentify a 'kill box' where the majority or entirety of the bad guys are, and methodically work over that box with small arms fire to (theoretically) maximize the probability of inflicting enemy casualties. That's why Marines still train to shoot out to 500 meters, since even though the 5.56 round is a mediocre performer at that distance, it's still effective in terms of infantry combat.
Well, it's pretty obvious after thinking about that a few moments, that a pistol in this environment is next to useless, so there's no real point in using a caliber other than NATO standard. Also, it's not like our infantry officer (likely the only guy WITH a pistol) is going to decide to close in on the bad guys on his own and take them out face-to-face with his sidearm. If he HAS to use his pistol, he's not really going to be using it in any different a manner than he would be his rifle, which makes high capacity at least somewhat relevant.
MARSOC on the other hand... The kind of fight they're likely to get into is much more similar to what any of us might train for on a defensive carbine course, or even a 3-gun stage that involves transitions. Actually identifying individual targets, and taking them out, and using the sidearm to stay in the fight if the carbine jams, or the magazine is expended. There's no reason not to absolutely LOVE the 1911 in this kind of environment.
barneyrw
Member
<<"infantry officer (likely the only guy WITH a pistol)">>
Not exactly true. In a Marine Corps rifle platoon, the platoon sergeant also carries a pistol. Any attached crew served weapons, such as machine guns & mortars will have some personnel carrying a pistol and not a rifle. Pistols are used in combat more than you think. My experience anyway.
Not exactly true. In a Marine Corps rifle platoon, the platoon sergeant also carries a pistol. Any attached crew served weapons, such as machine guns & mortars will have some personnel carrying a pistol and not a rifle. Pistols are used in combat more than you think. My experience anyway.
Ash
Member
In that role, they serve as self-defense. In any case, if the Marines want them, I have no problem with them buying the. It's not like the Marine Corps has traditionally been awash with funds or equipment. I think they know how to spend their money.
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