Marines new rifle - rant

[ALS]

I really don't know much about the new rifle that everyone is talking about, but I know the previous IBA models were Titanium bedded. To do it correctly takes a lot more skill than most people think. I had a benchrest gunsmith bed my Rem 700VS before I met my 2112 friend. When he took my rifle apart, he pointed out all the areas where the benchrest guy screwed up. I never would have known. He was pointing out things that I could barely see.

Ditto on that one. I just had my SA Super Match rebarreled by Charlie Maloney and when he took it apart he found all kinds of accuracy problems with it. It only took him less than an hour to correct these problems.
Most local gunsmiths would have ignored or not have known that there was even a problem.
I'm sorry but I have been spoiled by Military trained gunsmiths. When I wanted to get this gun rebarreled I wanted someone who knew what they were doing. When you find a man with a resume like his you want him to work on your M1A.

Fulton Armory, Savage, MD Chief Gunsmith, National Match Gunsmith (8 years) - Retired

* US Army Marksmanship Training Unit #1, Ft. Meade National Match Gunsmith & Instructor, (Civilian, 8 years)
Trained by Ray Parkinson

* US Army DIO Weapons Branch, Ft. Meade Small Arms Repair & Armorer, (Civilian, 1 year)

* Firing Pin Gunshop, Catonsville, MD Owner / Manager / Gunsmith (4/76 through 7/81)

* Army Marksmanship Unit, Ft. Benning, GA - AMU National Match Gunsmith Training

* US Army Counter Sniper School, Ft. Meade - Diploma, March, 1984

* US Army Small Arms Repair School, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD Audit, Fall 1987

* Built special weapons, M21 sniper systems, NM Guns for the 10th Special Forces Group, Ft. Devens, MA, US Drug Enforcement Administration, and the Ft. Meade MP Installation Special Reaction Team.

* Built NM rifles that won the All-Army National Match Championships in 1984 & 1985, plus accurizing work on over 5,000 other match firearms.

 

[Titan6]

Think about the logistics trail required behind these guns that are each one built custom. Parts such as barrels and bolts, and even stocks, are not interchangeable. If anything goes wrong, it goes back to an armorer who has the skill to rebuild any part of the rifle. On modern designs such as the AI or Tubb rifle, basically everything is interchangeable. This means they are more maintainable and repairable, and any many copies as you want can be manufactured on the line.

Not these days. Any specialty item that is still under warranty goes back to the maker for repairs. This may take time (but not as long as you might think) so another might be pulled off the shelf.

 

[GunTech]

I think you all are missing Zak's point.

We have the ability to design and build precision rifles that donlt require the detailed skills and time of a master gunsmith. Basically accurizing a 490 year old design is putting on a bandaid, while the correct answer is to fix the problem at the source. Look at rifles like the AI or Tubb 2000. They don't need special bedding or working over to fix production flaws.

For that matter, and recalling another thread, you could fix the whole bedding issuse by simply going to a 700 based tube gun, and gain the advantage of the AI detachable box magazine in the bargain. Then you can add any M16/AR-15 compatible add ons as required.

 

[Zak Smith]

Not these days. Any specialty item that is still under warranty goes back to the maker for repairs. This may take time (but not as long as you might think) so another might be pulled off the shelf.

This doesn't contradict at all my point-- it has to go back to someone who has the very specific skill sets to rebuild the rifle, fabricate parts, and fit them; where as a modern design can have the broken part replaced in 5 minutes with another off the shelf part.

It's analagous to replacing a part on a Glock vs. a hand-fitted 1911. The latter requires a highly-skilled armorer with special tools and knowlwdge, while the former requires hardly more than the ability to field-strip the pistol.

-z

 

[quicktime]

If you are in a military unit and have a part break it goes to the armorer no matter what. That is the only way you can get the part no matter how minor. That is just the way it work one for parts accountability and two to ensure that every private with a multitool can not be swapping out parts on their own weapons. I also tend to disagree that the T2K is the dominant weapon in Long range. Granted it is a fine rifle but it is no where near being dominant on the 1000 yard line.
I will agree that it takes longer to assemble a bedded rifle correctly and your average gunsmith is lacking in the talent to assemble a world class rifle. In fact I would rather have a competent machinist assemble a rifle over your local person listed under gunsmith in the phonebook.

And look at a barnard action basically a molding of the two technologies of tube guns and traditional. But I do not care if it is a tube gun or glue-in benchrest or pillar bedded unit. It all comes down to the barrel and good machining practices to ensure everything is square and tolerances are held. And you can not substitute that when every bit of accuracy is on the line. How you attach the action to the shooter is 90% cosmetics and individual feel and 10% function. You could stick a good barreled action on a lead pipe and it would shoot sub minute of angle.