Marlin 336 Questions

[DMW1116]

I wrote in the reloading forum about trying some cast bullets in my 336. I have all the stuff I need but I look at the rifle and see it is actually a micro groove barrel. I heard the .309 size bullets I have might not work. Is it too much of an issue to try a couple and see or is it dangerous?

Second, my rifle did a Humpty Dumpty impression and had a great fall. It fell of the bench and knocked the front sight over in the dovetail. Now I can push it completely out with my finger. It’s a Skinner Patridge front blade. Do I need a new one or can I use some loctite to keep it in place?

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

Not sure about the boolits, but as far as the front sight goes, cut a strip off of a brass feeler gauge you probably already own or can get really cheap an auto parts store, and place said strip under the removed sight, then replace the sight. Use whatever size is needed to make it very snug. Alternatively, you can take a center punch and dimple the bottom of the sight which will raise a small amount of metal and have the same effect. Neither method permanently alter the rifle, so you will not be a bubba.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Folks have been using cast bullets with success in Marlin micro groove barrels for ages. Yes, there is scuttlebutt on the web about it being no good but the reputable sources say otherwise.

 

[DMW1116]

The issue I’m told is the micro groove barrels need bullets sized slightly larger than normal. From what I’ve seen, cast bullets are normally sized 0.001” larger than jacketed bullets, so 0.309” in this case. I’ll try a couple and see how they work.

Is there any concern with corrosion with different metals in contact if brass is used for shimming?

 

[Slamfire]

I wrote in the reloading forum about trying some cast bullets in my 336. I have all the stuff I need but I look at the rifle and see it is actually a micro groove barrel. I heard the .309 size bullets I have might not work. Is it too much of an issue to try a couple and see or is it dangerous?

Second, my rifle did a Humpty Dumpty impression and had a great fall. It fell of the bench and knocked the front sight over in the dovetail. Now I can push it completely out with my finger. It’s a Skinner Patridge front blade. Do I need a new one or can I use some loctite to keep it in place?

First of all, check the bullet jump to rifling. No joke, this is critical.

I have this Marlin 336, decided to cast bullets and have fun.



I conducted testing, the faster the bullets, went, the worse the group got.





Bullets would not hold on an 8.5 X 11 inch piece of paper at 100 yards.



Now this is a comment on sample size, I was shooting ten shot groups and decided, three inches is all this rifle would do. However, much later I decided to test over 500 rounds of various powders, with the 170 gr jacketed bullet, and during this odyssey I purchased the tools, and checked the distance it took to get a bullet to touch the lands. Surprise, surprise, surprise. The bullet had to jump a half inch before it touched the rifling! And, given that the maximum ejection length of a cartridge was about 2.550", there was no way I could run cartridges that were 3.050 in length!

At this time I decided to up my round count, and see if the three inch groups was a phenomenon of small lot size statistics. It was!



as the round count got up, flyers, and I mean off the paper flyers, appeared.

this rifle will never shoot all that well, and it is pointless to attempt to shoot cast bullets. So, check your bullet jump before getting into the casting game with a Marlin. I did talk to Marlin New Haven in 1999, but it was about a rebarrel job on my 1894, and I did not know that my 336 was so bad. Marlin quite literally said they made these rifles for the 50 yard shooters. Their customer was someone who never cleaned their rifle, bought any brand of factory ammunition, any vintage of factory ammunition, and expected the rifle to go bang after sitting in the closet for years. Without a doubt, that explains the sausage sized reamer used to chamber my rifle.

this is all it will do with jacketed. These are not target rifles







check out the 300 yard shotgun patterns!

 

[Charlie98]

MicroGroove barrels are no different than any other barrel with cast... it boils down to the right bullet for the bore. I have a Savage 99 in .30-30, it does require a .310" cast bullet for best accuracy, but my Savage 99 in .308 is perfectly happy with .309" cast. I can shoot .309" bullets in the .30-30, but there is a velocity threshold... once I get beyond a certain velocity, the bullets start to scatter.

I load cast for a number of MG barrels... 2 .30-30's and a .41, currently. All have taken regular (.309" and .411" respectively...) bullets with no problems... but, as I say, every barrel is different.

 

[DMW1116]

The reason to try cast was partly to lower velocity and use reduced loads so pushing fast isn’t really a goal. I’ll try a few and see what happens. The might be fine. First issue is to fix that front sight.

 

[ThomasT]

Here is a good article on Micro-groove barrels and cast bullets. This whole site is a good place for different lever action loads.

https://leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/microgrove-barrels.htm

http://www.lasc.us/articlesfryxell.htm

I have a Lee 170gr flat nose 30 caliber mold but have never used it. I also have a .309 sizer and universal crimp remover and universal case mouth expanding die. I have this because I had read that shooting lead in a Marlin took a little work. I was planning to try unsized bullets with a gas check installed. I was going to use fired but unsized cases and use the universal case mouth expander to open the case. But I have never done this.

As for Marlins being accurate with lead bullets just look how accurate some of their 22 rifles are. Those guns can be real shooters with ammo they like so no reason for the other barrels to not be accurate unless you get one with a way oversized chamber like @Slamfire wrote about. And he certainly gave it a try and wrote a heck of a report.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I use .311” boolits in all my .30cal.
However, it’s on account of the fact that my Marlin with Microgroove bbl requires it.
But, It is VERY accurate!

The .309 loaded over a fast burning powder such as Unique or RedDot will likely give acceptable accuracy. Try to run up the velocity with RL7, 4198, 3031 or such, and likely you’ll see accuracy and leading problems unless diameter is correct.

The .30/30 is perhaps the best and most perfect cast bullet cartridge in existence. You’ll enjoy it!

 

[ThomasT]

I forgot to mention it but the bullet mold guru Veral Smith always suggested using IMR 4198 powder before you try anything else for cast bullets. Here is his book. Let us know if you buy it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373381063359?hash=item56ef3ee2bf:g:eKoAAOSwKGxfzTHQ

 

[DMW1116]

The only suitable powder available locally was Alliant 2400. It's listed for most all 30 caliber rifle loads in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. The velocity I'm aiming for is on the low end of the information I can find, 1600 to 1800 feet per second. I'd like as much accuracy as I can get since I'm not concerned with velocity. I want to stretch this thing out and take advantage of the new sights (RPP Aperture rear and Skinner Patridge blade front).

 

[ThomasT]

Do some reading on the Leverguns site I linked to earlier. Paco Kelly has a lot of info on reloading with cast and jacketed bullets for the 30-30 as do several of the other article contributors there.

Also this.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/The Load.htm

 

[Charlie98]

The only suitable powder available locally was Alliant 2400. It's listed for most all 30 caliber rifle loads in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

I've loaded .30-30 with IMR4227 and it worked pretty well... 2400 is very close to IMR4227. 18grn IMR4227 and any cast 170grn FN bullet gave me right at 1700fps in my 99, a little slower in the 336, for some reason.

I would keep your eye out for some IMR4198 (or H4198,) however... it's the cat's meow with cast in rifle cartridges.