Marlin microgroove and lead boolits

[Dog Soldier]

This horse has died from the constant beatings. Are we lawyers are just gun owners. The Winchester rifling is a Micro Groove style? It seems this has appealed more to the "PC" than to the re-loaders..

 

[LOLBELL]

I don't know if a B92 has " Micro Groove " or not, I have one so I'll check it and see. From experience with loading a couple of 336s in 35 Rem I have to shoot "fat" bullets. I cast a 200 RNFP from clip on wheel weights and size to .360. Anything smaller skids on the shallow grooves and leads the bore pretty bad and accuracy is off. Groove diameter one is .3585 and the other is .358

I looked at the Browning B92 and Marlin 336 side by side and the rifling is very, very similar on the two. I know "Micro Groove" rifling is a Marlin trademark but I believe the Japan B92s have micro grooves for rifling. If my old eyes were seeing right there were 10-12 very shallow grooves in the B92. I have not tried lead in the B92 yet and may not after this discovery. It was a lot of trial and error to find a bullet, lube, pressure and velocity that worked in the 336s. No more than I shoot the B92 I think I'll stick with full length gas checks.

 

[Walkalong]

No Winchester never used the Micro Groove word. It is used to describe the type of rifling Winchester used which was the same.

It was used to describe the Marlin rifling they came up with. If Winchester copied it, you/they can call it rifling like the Marlin Micro Groove, but you can't call it Micro Groove, that's what a patent its all about.

 

[Walkalong]

The Winchester rifling is a Micro Groove style?

Bingo!

 

[243winxb]

Ask - Why did Marlin start making barrels , with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves)?

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894Centerfire/1894.asp

 

[Salmoneye]

Ask - Why did Marlin start making barrels , with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves)?

So that people who were/are unwilling to learn how to make Micro-Groove shoot cast accurately without leading, would stop complaining?

 

[Elkins45]

When I owned a marlin 1895 I used to shoot 400 grain cast bullets at full velocity, and I lubed them with Lee liquid alox to boot! Accuracy was just fine: that rifle had iron sights and I couldn't discern a difference between cast and jacketed at 100 yards. The key to shooting cast in a MicroGroove barrel is to shoot the fattest bullet you can shove into the chamber.

 

[Catpop]

How fat is too fat? .002, .003 -------

 

[Catpop]

Opps my fault, you said chamber, sorry

 

[buck460XVR]

MicroGrooved barrels used in centerfire rifles were designed to shoot jacketed bullets, at a time when the majority of folks that bought them, used standard factory ammo. The process allowed Marlin to make barrels faster and less expensively, while claiming to give higher accuracy using standard factory ammo loaded with jacketed bullets. In the mid-fifties up to the nineties, this is what what the majority of their customer base wanted. The idea that lead bullets pushed only to cowboy shooting velocities were inaccurate and caused fouling didn't matter to either the customer base or the manufacturer. When home casting and reloading of cast bullets became popular again, the barrels created a problem to those folks, because at first there was little experience with loading lead for these barrels. Nowadays, with the amount of experience and knowledge gained over the years loading lead for these barrels, there have been solutions found for the inherent accuracy problem. Solutions and answers can be easily found now, thanks to our good friend Google. I'd assume with the recent increase in desire to use lead unchecked bullets in their lever actions, Marlin would once again find or return to a rifling, that would appeal to this customer base.

 

[dh1633pm]

Dog Soldier, you said earlier to slug the bore. So I slug my 1895 Marlin in 45-70. I should then go .002 over with gas checks for good results? I shoot some lead right now out my 1895, but I have never shot them for accuracy. I will let you know what my slug results are.

Usually shoot at a 18 inch square plate at 200 yards. Easy to gong lead or not. And thanks for the info. Takes the 45-70 a bit to get there, but it does.

I wasn't aware that Winchester used a micro grove style rifling so I did the Google thing. There is a lot of info out there on it. You learn something new everyday.

 

[PapaG]

I have a 94 Win from the late 60s in 44 mag and it has what I call shallow, multiple, non cut type rifling. It did not like cast bullets either, at first.
How's that for not saying "microgroove?"

 

[Walkalong]

My Winchester 94 liked fat lead bullets. Found that out from experimenting when the first loads leaded the bore. I don't remember what kind of rifling it had. My son has it now.

 

[midland man]

so I asked earlier what max size diameter lead bullet should I use in my marlin 336w 30-30? and any mold recommendations?

 

[LOLBELL]

so I asked earlier what max size diameter lead bullet should I use in my marlin 336w 30-30? and any mold recommendations?

I shoot a .360 sized bullet in a couple of 35 rems. one has a .358 bore the other has a .3585 bore, so .002 and .0015 over works for me. I cast a RCBS 35 200 RNFP gas checked. I would try RCBS 30 150 FN gas checked sized to .001 over and work my way up in size.

 

[ReloaderFred]

so I asked earlier what max size diameter lead bullet should I use in my marlin 336w 30-30? and any mold recommendations?

It will be necessary to slug the bore of your rifle before the question can be correctly answered. Once you know the actual diameter of your bore, than you'll size .001" over that, minimum. Some have success with .002" over bore diameter, but I've found in most cases that .001" over bore diameter will produce good accuracy and minimize leading.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[GooseGestapo]

In deference to my Marlin .30/30 I started sizing ALL my .30cal cast "boolits" to .311" Guess what, all my .30'cals started shooting cast even better.

The only problem I've encountered is with the .300blk cases made from reforming.223 milspec cases. Seated cast bullets of .309-.311" won't chamber due to too thick necks.

Now I've added a .303Brit to the "family". It wants .313-314" bullets...

 

[PapaG]

Back around 58 or so when I started casting, lyman's recommendations were .358, .454, .311 and .430 for the calibers we loaded (38/357, 45 Colt, 30-30, 30-06, and 44 mag/special). Almost sixty years later and a bunch of lead into the berm, and a few animals, I find they weren't too far off. My Blackhawk shoots best with the 45-255KT @.454, my Win and Mar 44 mags like .430 and maybe a little bigger as some unsized loads have shown promise. My Ruger 357s surprisingly drive tacks with .356, and my '52 model 70 goes for .308 while the 336 demands no smaller than .311. No rule. No law. Each has its own preference. Fun.