MBC .309 bullets in a Marlin 336

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Jech

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Whenever I buy a new gun, it is my custom to start off my load development with an order to Brad over at MBC before I even look at boolit moulds. A new Marlin 336c is in my future and I have some questions about what to start with. I'm mainly looking at the #1 Whitetail 165gr RNFP but am also interested in the #2 Whitetail 135gr RNFP.

My questions and warning flags are centered around...

- Shooting a .309" sized cast bullet out of a microgroove barrel. Marlin microgroove barrels are known to slug on the larger side (.3105" - .311" is not uncommon) Has anyone experienced excessive leading or suffering accuracy with this bullet/rifle combo?
- Loading a bevel-base cast bullet at mid to high end velocities (used for sniping coyotes and dispatching hordes of cardboard zombies). 30-30 is a gentle caliber that does just fine without gas checks when proper fit and alloy are maintained...but using a BB-style bullet is just asking for trouble/leading IMHEO (in my humble inexperienced opinion).
- Is the 336's 1-in-10 rifling capable of stabilizing the 135gr #2 Whitetail properly? If originally designed to support a 170gr bullet, what kind of consideration in regards to velocity need to be made to shoot the really heavy (190gr+) or really light (115gr+) bullets effectively?

Thanks guys! ~ Jech
 
I took a fishing sinker and slugged my 1895 (45 70). Different rifle but same concept. I ended up getting some .460 soft lead bullets for it.

A loading manual should give you heaviest bullet. Lighter is always ok but heavier needs a faster twist to stabilize.
 
Jech said:
Whenever I buy a new gun, it is my custom to start off my load development with an order to Brad over at MBC before I even look at boolit moulds. A new Marlin 336c is in my future and I have some questions about what to start with. I'm mainly looking at the #1 Whitetail 165gr RNFP but am also interested in the #2 Whitetail 135gr RNFP.

My questions and warning flags are centered around...

- Shooting a .309" sized cast bullet out of a microgroove barrel. Marlin microgroove barrels are known to slug on the larger side (.3105" - .311" is not uncommon) Has anyone experienced excessive leading or suffering accuracy with this bullet/rifle combo?
- Loading a bevel-base cast bullet at mid to high end velocities (used for sniping coyotes and dispatching hordes of cardboard zombies). 30-30 is a gentle caliber that does just fine without gas checks when proper fit and alloy are maintained...but using a BB-style bullet is just asking for trouble/leading IMHEO (in my humble inexperienced opinion).
- Is the 336's 1-in-10 rifling capable of stabilizing the 135gr #2 Whitetail properly? If originally designed to support a 170gr bullet, what kind of consideration in regards to velocity need to be made to shoot the really heavy (190gr+) or really light (115gr+) bullets effectively?

Thanks guys! ~ Jech
Click to expand...
We can do that one in .311. Maybe someone here who has tried that bullet in his Marlin will chime in here. Results were good, as I recall.
 
I've used .309, .310, .311 and .312" bullets in my Marlin (Glenfield M30). All have shot good, but the .311 and .312" shot the best. The .312" were some bullets another shooter gave me so I don't have the sizer die for that size. Besides my moulds are all .309 or .311 spec. bullets and at .311 they just barely touch the sizer/lube die.

I also have found that my other .30 caliber rifles prefer the .311" bullets, so thats the only size I use anymore. (.30/06 -(2) and .30/30).

For the .35Rem, I use .360" as thats the largest sizer I have. for the .338" I ordered a .340" sizer and both my Interarms custom .338/06 and Marlin M338MX in .338MarlinExpress shoot some of their best groups with a cast bullet at ~2,000fps.

I only shoot cast bullets through my Marlin M1895. However, my sizer for it is a .459" but it has the Ballard style rifling and is not particular.

My .30/30 besides the Lee .309"-150gr FNGC (.311" and 158gr w/gascheck) it also shoots the 122gr RNGC very well over 10.0gr of Unique. The Lyman 311316 (115gr FNGC) isn't as accurate as it casts to about .314" and suffers during the sizing down....

My .30/30 also is a hoot shooting the Lyman .311252 (78gr) over 5.0gr of Bullseye. It's about like shooting a .22lr. Very accurate too. Runs about 1,000fps. Bullet impact is usually as loud as the report... My .30/06 Colt Light Rifle shoots these in a 1-hole group at 25yds... However, zero is very different than a full power jacketed bullet.

So, it's not just a Marlin "Microgroove" thing, however, the Microgroove barrels are a tad less "tolerant" of undersized bullets due to fluctuations in actual bore diameter vs. groove diameter.
For lube, I've had good results with 50/50 Alox-beeswax and the SPG lube.
check out www.cast-boolits.com A lot of cast shooters there. More good info also at www.MarlinOwners.com
 
MissouriBullet said:
We can do that one in .311. Maybe someone here who has tried that bullet in his Marlin will chime in here. Results were good, as I recall.
Click to expand...

Can you make an order for less than 1000? I called to order a box of 250 Whitetail #1 @ .311 and a box of 500 44 Smashers @ .431 and the nice lady said I had to order them in a qty of 1000 each for a special run. I guess I'm worried about ordering 1000 of each in case they don't shoot that well out of the 336 and 1894.
 
I bought 100 sized at .311 and they worked great in my microgrooved Marlin. I couldn't figure out how to shoot up 1000 of them, so didn't get them from MBC, but they were right around 18 BHN. I would imagine that the MBC bullets sized at .311 would work just fine.
 
ssyoumans said:
Can you make an order for less than 1000? I called to order a box of 250 Whitetail #1 @ .311 and a box of 500 44 Smashers @ .431 and the nice lady said I had to order them in a qty of 1000 each for a special run. I guess I'm worried about ordering 1000 of each in case they don't shoot that well out of the 336 and 1894.
Click to expand...
Since we don't have any of those bullets made up in raw form, we would have to interrupt our regular production runs to set up for a special batch. That takes an hour, plus the time to switch back to the other bullet we were running on the respective casting and lubrisizing machines. This is why we need a minimum order when we don't have the raw bullets ready to be sized to custom diameters.

Production schedules are tight and we try very hard to get bullets out the same- or next-day. When we have to do ad hoc changeovers, there is a negative impact upon this ability.

I hope you understand.

Brad
 
MissouriBullet said:
Since we don't have any of those bullets made up in raw form, we would have to interrupt our regular production runs to set up for a special batch. That takes an hour, plus the time to switch back to the other bullet we were running on the respective casting and lubrisizing machines. This is why we need a minimum order when we don't have the raw bullets ready to be sized to custom diameters.

Production schedules are tight and we try very hard to get bullets out the same- or next-day. When we have to do ad hoc changeovers, there is a negative impact upon this ability.

I hope you understand.

Brad
Click to expand...

No problem, I understand. Now to convince 3 of my fellow THR Marlin 336 owners to go in on a run for oversized Whitetail #1 and 44 Smashers :) I don't think I'll shoot the 336 as much as the 44 Mag anyhow, so I am more tempted with the 44. The pistol rounds are so much easier and faster to load.
 
ssyoumans said:
No problem, I understand. Now to convince 3 of my fellow THR Marlin 336 owners to go in on a run for oversized Whitetail #1 and 44 Smashers :) I don't think I'll shoot the 336 as much as the 44 Mag anyhow, so I am more tempted with the 44. The pistol rounds are so much easier and faster to load.
Click to expand...
I have made myself a note to let you know when we're doing those bullets again so that I can ask and see if you're still interested. Once they're running, it's not such a big deal to change the lubrisizer out.

I didn't want you to think I was just being mean for the fun of it.

Brad
 
Ssyoumans,

I use MBC's .311 sized .30 cal bullet in my 336 and it shoots very well. I only have pistol powders on hand and haven't really worked up extensive load data, but using 2400 and Unique I have had good results as an anti-cardboard load.

I need to spend some more time on the castboolits page and see if they have other recipies for cast lead in the .30-30. I stopped at the local gun shop this morning to find a more suitable rifle powder for lead bullet use in the .30-30 and couldn't find any data in their books they keep on the shelf for in-store use. Bummer.

Q
 
I only have pistol powders on hand and haven't really worked up extensive load data, but using 2400 and Unique I have had good results as an anti-cardboard load.
Click to expand...

I've heard this before about 30-30...such a versatile caliber it's no wonder to me why so many people like it so much.

Brad, I'm very to happy to hear you'd be willing to offer custom batch of bullets for us here. I completely understand your comments about effort/cost versus the potential gains. I know there are a lot of Marlin 336 owners out there and I'll bet that more would get in line if they knew a .311" version existed that was specially designed for their rifle.

If 1,000 if the quantity required to get things rolling, I'll see what I can put together and sweeten that number a bit =D
 
Jech said:
If 1,000 if the quantity required to get things rolling, I'll see what I can put together and sweeten that number a bit =D
Click to expand...

Jech - count me in for 250..

MissouriBullet said:
I have made myself a note to let you know when we're doing those bullets again so that I can ask and see if you're still interested. Once they're running, it's not such a big deal to change the lubrisizer out.
Brad
Click to expand...

Brad - sounds good, consider adding me to a list for .431" 44 Smashers too! :)
 
Quoheleth said:
Ssyoumans,

I use MBC's .311 sized .30 cal bullet in my 336 and it shoots very well. I only have pistol powders on hand and haven't really worked up extensive load data, but using 2400 and Unique I have had good results as an anti-cardboard load.

I need to spend some more time on the castboolits page and see if they have other recipies for cast lead in the .30-30. I stopped at the local gun shop this morning to find a more suitable rifle powder for lead bullet use in the .30-30 and couldn't find any data in their books they keep on the shelf for in-store use. Bummer.

Q
Click to expand...

The Lyman manual lists both pistol powders (Unique, Herco, 2400) as well as about 11 rifle powders. I guess it just depends on what kind of velocity you're looking to get. I was planning on keeping mine under 1500fps, so I was going to work with Unique. 2400 seems to be good for up to 1900fps. They even list rifle loads up to 2270 fps (W748).
W748 25.0 (1613 fps) - 35.0 (2270 fps) @ 2.510", 173 gr #2 Alloy
H335 22.0 (1596 fps) - 30.0 (2254 fps) @ 2.510", 173 gr #2 Alloy
 
Still hoping someone can shed some light on the 336's ability to stabilize a lighter bullet like the 135gr MBC #2 Whitetail.
:confused:
 
I'm very close to placing my own order as well. Picked up a couple hundred standard large rifle primers the other day, what powder would recommend for those 165gr whitetails Brad?
 
Jech said:
... what powder would recommend for those 165gr whitetails...
Click to expand...

I ordered mine, my goal is to keep them under 1500fps at the muzzle and over 1200fps (supersonic) at 100 yards. If you are comfortable with using pistol data, Blue Dot should work for this range of velocity, if not, then the Hodgdon site has loads listed for 160gr LFN with H4895, H4198 and Trail Boss with a velocity range of 1,000-1,616 fps.

I plan on loading up somewhere between 10.5-13gr of BD and checking accuracy. See post #11.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=173926
 
I struck gold today and found 336SS on consignment at a local shop for $475. The serial number tells me it was made in 2009 in North Haven before the Remington-induced closure so I know it's solid piece. It looks brand spanking new, the action isn't even broken in. I walked out feeling like I was robbing them =D

Brad, just placed an order for 500 of the .311" #1 Whitetails...now I gotta go powder shopping. I hear H414, IMR3031, and IMR4895 are solid contenders. Gonna use Unique for my powderpuffs.
 
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