Martian Firearms?
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Tommygunn
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Advertising Slogan : "Martian Firearms ~~ they're out of this world!!!" 
RedlegRick
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Well, without going into the math, escape velocity from Earth is twelve miles per second, Mars is 38% of Earth's mass, so off the top of my head, escape velocity is something like four an a half to give miles per second, and since the fastest round out there only hits about one mile per second, the answer is no.A corrollary question to #1 is: if you shoot a terrestrial rifle on the surface of Mars, will the bullet go into orbit? I've been googling for an answer for 15 minutes and all I come up with are complex mathematical formulas. I've got stuff to do!! You guys are keeping me from getting anything done today!!
Jim Watson
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There was a short story about conflict on the moon. The standard weapon was a rifle known as the "Swift." Higher velocity than even a .220 Swift, it fired at lunar orbital velocity. The hero got lucky when a bullet went all the way around and hit his opponent.
L. Neil Smith had Win Bear get shot at with a flechette gun in vac. No air to stabilize the flechettes, they did not strike point on and did not penetrate his smartsuit.
L. Neil Smith had Win Bear get shot at with a flechette gun in vac. No air to stabilize the flechettes, they did not strike point on and did not penetrate his smartsuit.
The more important question is whether you make your own reloads on Mars as the weights would be off. You would have to re-calibrate everything! What would the USPSA shooters do - with the lower gravity, you would bounce around when you try to run between stages!
Can you carry AIWB under your pressure suit?
Can you carry AIWB under your pressure suit?
Primers and propellents contain their own oxidizer and do not need O2 from the atmosphere. A firearm will fire just fine and dandy in a total vacuum or underwater.
The Martian atmosphere is not a vacuum but yes "space" is very nearly so. There is a reason astronauts use pressure suits and high altitude aircraft use pressurized cabins or pressure suits.
theotherwaldo
Member
I'm just wondering if there are any ingredients in the primer, propellants or lubricants that might sublimate or degrade under the near-vacuum and extreme temperatures of Mars... .
theotherwaldo
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-Also, many materials become very brittle at low temperatures.
How would weapons-grade metals and plastics handle the shocks of firing and cycling under those conditions?
How would weapons-grade metals and plastics handle the shocks of firing and cycling under those conditions?
RedlegRick
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I just thought of that. Maybe not so much the weapon's materials, but consider the weakest link, the ammunition. How does paper thin brass, aluminum, or steel respond to extreme cold followed by intense heat and pressure?
I'm pretty sure an AK design would function well under Martian conditions, as long as the steel used could handle the temperature ranges.
mcb
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Mars surface conditions would be a good place to store propellants, it's cool (down right cold) and dry. Mars has almost no water in the atmosphere or even near the surface in the soil. The lack of atmospheric oxygen would only help with storage longevity and reduce brass oxidation
Lubricants might evaporate faster in the very low pressure atmosphere but the low temperatures would counter that effect. It would be interesting how much quicker or slower that would happen compared to earth. There are lubricant design for vacuum so a solution exists if needed.
Polymers might become brittle at these low temperatures but it's not low enough to compromise most metals used in firearms.
JCooperfan1911
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Exactly,
wiscoaster
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Well, no, not escape velocity. Escape velocity is the velocity needed to escape the planet's gravitational pull and become a satellite of the sun. What I'm asking is (I think my term is correct, but not 100% sure) is orbital velocity - where the object becomes a satellite of the planet, and that's orbit-radius dependent, and needs to be outside the atmosphere, so one would need to know the depth of the Martian atmosphere to know the lowest friction-free orbit height, and then the velocity to maintain that orbit. Lower = faster; higher = slower - that relationship I remember. But for SWAG purposes, just disregard what's used up getting up through the atmosphere (which, if shooting from a rifle, you'd have to shoot parallel to the surface to get the bullet's maximum tangential velocity, so it will have to traverse a greater distance in the atmosphere).
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I like this thread. All I know is I go to Mars.... I’m bringing a gun. Most likely in an Alien Gear holster.https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...was-the-soviet-unions-ultimate-space-revolver
Carl N. Brown
Member
Actually there was a Mars gun.
About 30 of them in total, chambered in rounds more powerful than .44 Magnum.
Earth shattering-ring Ka-Boomers.
Mars Automatic Pistol - Wikipedia
One gun I found "singularly unpleasant and alarming" was the .500 S&W. I managed to fire 3 rounds from the revolver belonging to a friend of my son and managed hit a basketball sized rock at the 60 yard berm. I handed the revolver back, because I knew that I at was at the limit of my nerve and would flinch like crazy on a fourth shot. I am sure that shooting the Mars Automatic would have been an out of this world experience. At least once.
Marvin the Martian would approve pf the Mars Automatic. "There is my earth-shattering kaa-boom!"
About 30 of them in total, chambered in rounds more powerful than .44 Magnum.
Earth shattering-ring Ka-Boomers.
Built by Webley in fact from a British designer.
Mars Automatic Pistol - Wikipedia
One gun I found "singularly unpleasant and alarming" was the .500 S&W. I managed to fire 3 rounds from the revolver belonging to a friend of my son and managed hit a basketball sized rock at the 60 yard berm. I handed the revolver back, because I knew that I at was at the limit of my nerve and would flinch like crazy on a fourth shot. I am sure that shooting the Mars Automatic would have been an out of this world experience. At least once.
Marvin the Martian would approve pf the Mars Automatic. "There is my earth-shattering kaa-boom!"
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CapnMac
Member
Well, the question is largely about molecular density. Even in interstellar space there are random atoms and particles (and possibly a stray molecule or two).
The Solar Wind coasts over Earth around 30 million feet MSL; the Karman Line sets the top of the atmosphere at 100KM (USAF uses 50 miles--264,000'MSL) to define the edge of "space," so, pick a favorite.
That's a Phased plasma rifle . . . [
]Well, given it's a suit, the carry could be built into the thing, some sort of clamshell that would spring out on demand, maybe.
Ok, I'm frustrated, I'm not finding a handy way to convert Mach numbers per atmospheric pressure., so I'm not seeing an easy answer as to whether Mach 1 is 10.50 fps or 105,000 fps. Not that I'd be keen to have bare ears in the present Martian Atmosphere.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
Egad.
Shaggy Martian Story
I'm reminded of a story where Marsonauts discovered a fist-sized moon whose orbit was so low it penetrated Martian geological features like mountains. It was so fast that once established, it would keep orbiting right through the previously-made holes in the mountains with regularity. It was discovered by the Marsonauts as they were examining one of its holes and luckily were not in the way when the satellite came by.
Amazed, they wrote a report on it but could not think of a name for it right away. However, since the other two major satellites were Phobos and Deimos, they finally settled on the name "Bottomos."
I never felt so cheated with a science fiction story as when I read the last line of that one. More than two thousand words just for a lousy pun.
Terry, 230RN
Shaggy Martian Story
I'm reminded of a story where Marsonauts discovered a fist-sized moon whose orbit was so low it penetrated Martian geological features like mountains. It was so fast that once established, it would keep orbiting right through the previously-made holes in the mountains with regularity. It was discovered by the Marsonauts as they were examining one of its holes and luckily were not in the way when the satellite came by.
Amazed, they wrote a report on it but could not think of a name for it right away. However, since the other two major satellites were Phobos and Deimos, they finally settled on the name "Bottomos."
I never felt so cheated with a science fiction story as when I read the last line of that one. More than two thousand words just for a lousy pun.
Terry, 230RN
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Jim Watson
Member
The Bergenholm (E.E. Smith, PhD) system neutralizes the inertia of the spacecraft, which will therefore immediately take on the velocity at which the force of its drive is equaled by the resistance of the medium. In interstellar space with a few atoms per cubic meter, that works out to about 90 light years per hour. Obviously a lot less in atmosphere.
WestKentucky
Member
I was having the same thought. Perhaps a gyrojet might get into orbit.A corrollary question to #1 is: if you shoot a terrestrial rifle on the surface of Mars, will the bullet go into orbit? I've been googling for an answer for 15 minutes and all I come up with are complex mathematical formulas. I've got stuff to do!! You guys are keeping me from getting anything done today!!
Carl N. Brown
Member
In THE QUEEN OF OUTER SPACE, the US astronaut guns were the six-shot C96 broomhandle Mauser painted gold.
Oh, I'm not sure the movie was set on Mars.
Nevermind.
Oh, I'm not sure the movie was set on Mars.
Nevermind.
theotherwaldo
Member
One more point - Ammunition that was assembled within an Earth-pressure atmosphere should disassemble itself when exposed to near vacuum because of the high-pressure air within the cartridge, which would be approximately the pressure of the air in a car tire relative to the Martian atmosphere... .
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Carl N. Brown
Member
In IT! THE CREATURE FROM BEYOND SPACE (1957, said to be the inspiration of the ALIEN movie series) the rescue mission to Mars came well equipped with .45 ACP Colt 1911A1 handguns, M1 Garand rifles, and Mark 2 pineapple hand grenades.
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Carl N. Brown
Member
Battlestar Galactica also used the CZ vz 52 pistol.
In the 1960s I was intrigued by WHB Smith "Small Arms of the World" 1966 mention of the CZ52 pistol (the totally different CZ (factory) rifle was imported as vz (model) 52 (year)). I gloombed on to mine 2004 at a gun show ($129.95, pistol, holster, two magazines, lanyard); it has been my usual Modern Military Pistol match gun based on ammo availibility alone. But I have carried it as a defensive weapon while ATVing in the mountains in Bear Hollow.
It aint the easiest gun to shoot accurately, but it is interesting.
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