Mass. strikes down gay marriage ban

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was watching Fox and they were talking about whether the Supreme Court would force the other states to recognize these marriages under the Full Faith and Credit clause.

I'm curious -- if they do rule that way, wouldn't that be grounds for applying the same reasoning to CCW?
 
Three points:

1. Consummation. Recently, a judge told a man who had caught his wife in bed with another woman, and sued for adultery, that two women cannot be adulterous as there is no consummation of the relationship.

If a marriage is inconsummate, the marriage can be annulled rather that having to go thru that pesky divorce thing. Homosexuals insist that they want only equal protection under the law, but heterosexual marriages, once consummated, cannot be annulled. They have to get a divorce.

2. Biology. Heterosexuals are precluded from intermarriage between brothers and sisters, mothers and sons, fathers and daughters, or even first cousins, aunts or uncles. This is because the offspring of those marriages can have serious physiological and psychological problems.

Since there is no threat of these anomalies, in a marriage which cannot produce natural children, there would be no problem with two brothers, two sisters, mother and daughter, or father and son marrying.

Homosexuals insist that they want only equal protection under the law, but heterosexual marriages are beset by limitations on relationships from which homosexuals are exempt.

3. Genealogy. What will happen to genealogy when the family tree starts leaning to one side or the other; especially when the union is between two brothers, two sisters, father and son, or mother and daughter?
 
Okay, since when did France become a good example of jurisprudence for the US to follow?

Even if male-female unions do not produce children, there is still the biological potential that they could.

That's part of the rationale behind all the legally binding decisions concerning adoption of children.

Adoption usually happens when a male-female couple are medically unable to produce children, but the same laws apply to those children because if the couple did not have an abnormal medical situation, they could produce their own children.

If a female-female couple are both perfectly healthy and normal, there is no possibility or potential whatsoever for children to be produced by that couple...............ever, under any circumstances. Producing a child would require absolutely a third person, at least.

The laws concerning marriage......the property rights conferred, the legal responsibilities to spouses and children, the legal benefits given to families for paternity leave, medical insurance, tax breaks, etc. etc are all predicated on the biological potential for married couples to produce children.

The same laws apply to elderly people getting married because at one time they had the potential to produce children, and usually have produced children in other marriages before getting married at an advanced age.

Okay, so if Bob and Steve "marry" and adopt a kid, which one of them gets the Family Leave Act maternity leave????????

Does Bob take it one week, and Steve take it the next week?

You are either Bob's or Steve's employer. You want to deal with that mess? Or do you want to show how cosmopolitan and urbane and sophisticated you are and take that on?

Not even the uber liberal John Kerry along with Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, etc, are in favor of gay "marriage."

But to go with the French legal example offered earlier, even in France, there is a legal difference between a married couple and a couple in a "civil union."

Somebody else made the sarcastic remark that we are biologically programmed to sleep around.

If that is true, isn't that even more reason for all the laws surrounding marriage???????

When kids are conceived and born, men and women are not legal equals nor are they biological equals.

Men can impregnate and leave at will.

Once a woman is pregnant, she's sort of busy for a long time, even if she gives up the child for adoption at birth, she's out of comission for months, at least. If she decides to keep the child after the man has left, she's really busy for a much longer time.

That's why "child support" laws exist.

hilllbilly
 
I was watching Fox and they were talking about whether the Supreme Court would force the other states to recognize these marriages under the Full Faith and Credit clause.
The USSC may not get involved at all. This is a state constitution issue on the state level. There are 37 states which have a "protection of marriage" law that states that they are exempt from the recognition of other state's homosexual marriage laws.

If they try to push this to the national level via a Constitutional Amendment, it takes 34 states to ratify. Note the 37 figure above, though. It'll never fly unless at least four of these states are willing to repeal their law and vote to ratify.
 
Don Galt.......

If you really think that "marriage" was created by the Catholic church only about 500 years ago, then you are smoking some serious crack.

Same for all you folks citing those whacky Christian Right Republicans as big meanies.

Every civilization, including every single Non-Christian, non-European civilization, have had all sorts of laws, regulations, and very strict taboos on whom you could and could not marry.

Ever heard of "bride price" before? Many, many, many non-Christian, non-Western cultures have the concept of "bride price" along with all sorts of other very complex, intricate laws, customs, regulations, and taboos about marriage.

Bride prices were put into effect in all sorts of non-Christian and pre-Christian civilizations because the people in those societies recognized the social and legal complexities produced by a marriage between a man and woman.

The man was taking away a woman who would more than likely produce other human beings, and who herself was the product of another previous marriage, etc. etc. And that legal and economic transaction had to recognized by some transfer of wealth, or some other means of recognizing those legal and economic rights and responsibilities with that marriage union.

Marriage is not solely a Christian institution. It's a lot older than Christianity.

All civilizations have had all sorts of laws, rules, regulations, taboos, etc. on who you could and could not marry for all kinds of good reasons.

But hey, not us enlightened, urbane, sophisticated, worldy Western intellectual types, right? We don't need no steeking laws to restict whom we may or may not marry, or even what marriage itself is, right?

I swear.......the result of post-modernism is, in my opinion, that many times self-styled worldly, urbane, sophisticated, Western intellectuals subscribe to some of the most idiotic ideas out there........But that's a whole series of other posts........so I won't go there.

hillbilly
 
This is a state constitution issue on the state level

I realize that. The thinking on the news was that if someone brought a case to the USSC, they might rule that the other 49 States would have to recognize the gay marriage certificates from Mass. under a Full Faith and Credit argument. I was wondering if this same reasoning would apply to State-issued CCW permits, since they are state-issued licenses just like a marriage license.
 
Now there's an interesting question for the traditionalist crowd....would you accept the legitimization of gay marriages via the Full Faith and Credit Clause, if your CCW was valid in all 50 states in return?
 
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/const.htm

There doesn't seem to be anything in the MA constitution providing for the "right" of gay marriage. Of course, I didn't see anything prohibiting it either.

There was however (somewhat related) this:

"Article III. [As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community, but by the institution of the public worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: Therefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily. "

And (unrelated) this:

"Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence."

Oh well.

Anyone seen the court's decision to see what in their constitution they based it on? My guess, another of those elusive/invisible parts similiar to what the SCOTUS uses for one of their all too often ventures into assaninity.
 
Its really amazing the number of excuses and justifications that come up when people try to force their religious views on everyone else-- but are in denial that such is what they are doing.

jimpeels claim that this is wrong because fathers and sons would be getting married takes the cake!

And is easy to answer-- ok, so for gay marriages, you can't have interfamily marriages either. And we can have the same consumation laws as heterosexsuals have.

There, we got a deal?

Frankly, there is no moral justification for interfering with the inealienable human right of free association.

Free association is the basis of capitalism-- you have the right to do business with whom you like, form buyers clubs, or not do business with whom you like.

In socialist countries, like this one, the government says you don't have the right of free association-- or they restrict the right. You can't have a club that doesn't allow women in it. You can't refuse to rent a room to christians. You can't marry whom you like.

The anti-gay marriage position is an anti-right of free association position.

It is socialist.
 
While I normally have a vast amount of respect for Thomas Sewell, it seems to me that his argument here is very weak. State marriage laws, which are of course ostensibly civil in nature, did not occur apart from religion.

To understand the evolution, it is necessary to look into the history of the ecleciastical courts, and the civil enforcement of their pronouncements (a method by which the Catholic church formed its own ¡§internal¡¨ courts, but fawned off enforcement to civil authorities) as well as to the legal structure of the Church of England, where Cathlocism was replaced by English civil authority, with the King at the head of the Anglican (to us Episcopalian) Church.

We explicitly adopted much of English common law with the foundation of America. Thus, it is a perfectly true statement that, ¡§Centuries of laws, policies and traditions have grown up around marriage¡¨ ¡V running in an unbroken line back to the Eclesiastical Courts of England and beyond. But by the same token, the reason that WE have them as laws, is because the Church of England was part of the English government, and the religious laws that were incorporated in England for religious reasons were adopted by the American states because they already existed in England, and because America had adopted English common law.

[If this seems bizzare, go look up your state¡¦s laws on marriage, especially if you live on the east coast, where the marriage laws are most likely to be as old as the state. The language is often quite unmistakably religious in nature. ¡§Marriage, being a sacred and holy institution...blah, blah¡¨

However, in America, we have a completely different basis for law, based on already-existed individual rights, not government-granted ones, and we have a separation of church and state. And certainly no one is going to argue that the state invented marriage, one presumes. So, that leaves one with the conclusion that the state is either; a) enforcing the pre-defined legal and civil aspects of a religious ceremony, or b) administering and then enforcing the pre-defined legal and civil aspects of a non-religious ceremony, modeled (or based) on a religious ceremony.

In the case of a), it is hard to imagine why a non-religious state should particularly care what people in a given religion do ¡V as long as some religion has given its blessing to that behavior. If a non-religious state did care what religious doctrines it was enforcing [for convenience we can assume between two mutually consenting partners of age to make legally-binding decisions] then it would be powerful evidence that the state was, in fact not acting in a non-religious way, but was in fact enforcing some religious dogma.

In this case, a truly non-religious state would merely apply the same impartial standards to any marriage santified by a religion, and any gays who convinced a religion to marry them should be treated by a non-religious state in exactly the same way, and with exactly the same indifference as the state treats the question of enforcing a contract between any other two parties - completely impartially.

In the case of b), it is quite hard to see why, absent a hidden and denied religious motive, why a secular state should particularly care which two parties entered into a purely civil defined legal relationship, should the people, for reasons of their own, wish to enter into it. The state, after all, being non-religious, is merely acting in the capacity of an impartial referee between parties, and does not have an inherent interest in the ¡§content¡¨ of a given agreement.

Let¡¦s look at some of Sewell¡¦s other points:

¡§First of all, a marriage between a man and a woman has the potential to produce additional people, who are neither consenting nor adults. The wellbeing of these children is important both for their sake and for the sake of the society as a whole, whose future these children represent. This consideration obviously does not apply to homosexual unions.¡¨

This describes the additional state function of protection of children, principly in the event of the failure of marriage. [I think it is safe to assume that Sewell is referring more greatly to assesment of child support and child custody, than to Social child protective services, as these are not directly connected with marriage.] But where is the objection? A failure of having to assess child support or child custody as a result of childless unions is not a burden on the State! This would be like the state wanting a guarantee that hetrosexual marriages will break up, so that the state could have children¡¦s lives to meddle with.

Second, men and women are inherently in very different positions within a marriage. [...] Laws must make them jointly responsible for the baby that she alone will have. This consideration likewise does not apply to homosexual unions.¡¨

Again, as above, where is the objection? The fact that there is less work for the state is not a justification for anything, unless we are arguing for ¡§workfare for civil servants¡¨? Not all legal measures and complications arise in all corporations either, but we don¡¦t argue that the less complicated ones ¡§don¡¦t need the corporate structure,¡¨ do we?

¡¨ Third, time has very different effects on men and women. [...] Since a woman has often invested years of her life in creating a home and family, the marriage contract is one way of trying to assure her that this investment will not be in vain.¡¨

Again, this is a targeted argument against a general type of civil protection. If it were true that in a homosexual marriage the partners were inherantly equal, they would not need civil enforcement of that aspect of marriage, but that does not justifiably argue against the application of the legal status - it merely makes less work for the state. Nor is the investment of ¡§homemaking¡¨ relegated exclusively to women: It is a logical function of any relationship where one partner ¡§tends house¡¨ while the other tends their career, quite regardless of sex or gender. In as much as the state properly judges that one person¡¦s success was aided by another¡¦s efforts, and that compensation is due thereby, this is no different regardless of the marriage participants.

And finally, in an area that Sewell didn¡¦t cover, the Constitution¡¦s ¡§Full faith and credit¡¨ clause does not give States the option of whether they would or would not ¡§prefer¡¨ to honor the legal arrangements of other States: It commands and demands that they will honor such arrangements, whether they like it or not. This is as applicable to concealed carry of weapons as it is to marriage, (or vice versa) and State's evasion of this Constitutional command in both instances is unconstitutional.
 
I didn't say that Marriage had only existed for 500 years, and I was using rough figures anyway.

Here's a summary and citation:
"Roman Catholic Church: A recent book by Yale Historian John Boswell demonstrates that Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches both sanctioned and sanctified unions between partners of the same sex, until modern times. The churches used ceremonies which were very similar to conventional heterosexual ceremonies. "

John Boswell, "Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe", Villard, New York, NY, (1994)

(thanks to the link someone supplied earlier that had this in it.)
 
I agree that all marriage laws should be stricken. It's a religious matter. As things stand now, the State in its wisdom will approve of a union between an Orthodox Jew and Non-Jew, or between an Orthodox Christian and a Pagan, no matter how offensive the faiths of these individuals may find that union. Indeed in some cases such marriages are seen as equivalent to murder by one or the other party's faith. I destest the notion that the State gets to overrule these ancient beliefs for its own purposes.

Moreover, what are official marriages for? Children's issues have long been controlled by systems and laws which don't have anything to do with marriage. Taxation should be neutral. ANd it's not like anyone requires you to show a family tree to them to prove you're not too closely related. Nor do most states even do the blood test anymore. The marriage license is just another tax, when you boil it down.
 
Don Galt

jimpeels claim that this is wrong because fathers and sons would be getting married takes the cake!
That small whispery sound and the slight breeze you felt was my point going right over your head!

I was making points of fact. I never said anything about "this is wrong". Those were your words that you conveniently placed into my mouth.

Re-read the post and this time read for comprehension.

And is easy to answer-- ok, so for gay marriages, you can't have interfamily marriages either.
Why not? There is no valid reason for them to have that restriction. There will be no natural children to be stricken with genealogical defects.
And we can have the same consumation laws as heterosexsuals have.
And in the case of two women? What would you deem necessary to qualify as "consummation? Did you miss that part about "Recently, a judge told a man who had caught his wife in bed with another woman, and sued for adultery, that two women cannot be adulterous as there is no consummation of the relationship."?

Two men can achieve penetration, copulation, and ejaculation. How will women achieve same?

Would you require that two women use prostheses with a requirement of penetration or will mutual or singular cunnilingus be sufficient?

Its time to play "You are the Lawmaker", Don. Go for it.
 
IMHO, by the time our laws degenerate into arcane discussions about who's probing who's orifices with what, it's time to take said laws and burn them. :D
 
Its time to play "You are the Lawmaker", Don. Go for it.

Fair enough.

Ok, let me get out my trusty guide to lawmaking. Lets see what it says.... hmmm.... shall make no law.... hmmm... establishement of religion. Gadzooks!

As Lawmaker, I hereby declare, after getting the advice and consent of the constitution-- that any law respecting establishment, condition, limitation, or setting requirements for marriage are hereby struck down, as unconstitutional.

Furthermore, since the rights of hte constitution have been extended to all citizens of the country, no state law shall violate said right.

If it isn't clear, any law that makes a distinction in how it treats people based on marriage, is unconstitutional. Any law that limits who can get married or who cannot is unconstitutional. Any law saying what marriage is-- what rights or responsibilities it confers is unconstitutional. (Everyone decides how to manage their own marriage-- if they get divorced, maybe *he* should raise the kids.)

Marriage is a private contract between individuals. Government has no right to say what it can and can't be. And any laws passed by government that restrict marriage based on religious grounds (like the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act) are unconstitutional.

Furthermore, everyone who voted for, or signed that act, who also took an oath to defend the constitution shall be drawn and quartered, at noon this next sunday on the washington mall.

Thus endith the lawmaking session.

PS- Sorry this was not as amusing as it would be in the hands of a better comedian.
 
As pointed out on FNC:

Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege (like driving) granted by the state- hence you must obtain a license to enter legally into marriage. The state can therefore determine who can and cannot marry. If MA legislature defines marriage as between a man and woman, the MA supreme court decision will be reversed.

I think I got that right.
 
Ha!

Marriage is not a priviledge. It is a RIGHT.

It is an example of the right of free association.

If free association is a priviledge, then you would agree with the state saying they have the right to decide who gets the priviledge of participting in thehighroad.org, even though its a private forum?

You can't have it both ways-- your choice is free association, capitalism, and marriage as a right.

Or no right to free association, marriage is a priviledge, and socialism.

Either the government owns you, or it doesn't. Are we servants of the government? Do we have to ask permission from them for the priviledge of living as we like?

Seems we fought a revolution over that issue-- in part because people wanted the right to practice the religion they liked that the state did not approve.

And now people of that same faith claim the state has the right to only allow faiths they approve of to be practiced in this regard?

Ironic, eh?

Don

edited to add:

PS-- factually you're in error, 2dogs. A man and a woman living together in texas for 6 months are considered to be married-- no license or ceremony is necessary. If common law marriages are recognized by the state, then the state recognizes the right to get married without its license.
 
Here's a great article on marriage by a friend of mine:

Why I Am Against Marriage
by Joe Bartlett

No, it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm single. And no, I do not believe that marriage itself is a bad institution. Rather, I think that marriage is a meet, right and salutary estate for couples who desire it. I have no problem with the institution or marriage, per se. My problem, then, is with the institutionalization of marriage by the government. Simply put, we need no government recognition of marriages, nor do we need government limitations on marriages. Moreover, we certainly do not need government taxation of marriages. In fact, if we were to eliminate the so-called marriage penalty from our tax code, we could do away with government certification of marriages altogether. (Of course, as a libertarian, I'm in favor of eliminating the income tax altogether, but that's a topic for an altogether separate article.)

In lieu of marriages, I propose that we reduce the legal status of marriage to nothing more than contract law. (Notably, the government issued marriage certificate is, itself, little more than a contract, with needless bureaucracy and overhead attached.) I could, for example, draft a contract with any person or persons, for the purpose of establishing an exclusive domestic partnership, with all rights, responsibilities and privileges entailed by such an arrangement. While I, personally, would desire to enter into such a partnership only with a single female on a presumably permanent basis ("till death do us part"), I understand and expect that others would not want to place such a limitation on this contracted domestic partnership. Such a reduction of marriage to contract law would allow for domestic partnerships between members of the same sex, among groups of more than two persons, less than two persons (e.g., a self-imposed vow of celibacy, which would be foreseeable for a variety of reasons), on a time-limited basis, with a non-exclusivity clause, and any other permutation you may like. Or, it may allow such partnerships with any permutations you do not like, as what happens behind closed doors of another person's home is not your business anyway. (Who may and may not enter into such a binding contract is, again, a separate topic for another article. For the time being, I will limit such a contract to "consenting adults," i.e., those who are not dependent on others, such as parents. Further distinctions could almost certainly be drawn, which I will not elaborate upon here.)

Lest anyone worry that such contracts would become costly, I point to the marriage tax as an example of just how costly marriage under our current system already is. In addition, I foresee a "standard domestic partnership contract," not unlike a standard lease, which varies very little from realtor to realtor. The existent of such a standard form for such partnership contracts would assure that couples (or groups or individuals) wishing to enter into this estate would not incur exorbitant legal costs. I also foresee those who enter into such an estate reaping a financial gain from such a contract, in the form of reduced costs of health and life insurance and other services that are generally made available to married couples at a cost lower than would be available to two separate individuals.

Some may be concerned about how such domestic partnerships would influence such matters as health insurance. "I don't want to pay my premiums to an insurance provider who provides service to polygamists," someone may object. Morally, this is certainly a viable objection. There are many such domestic partnership arrangements that would certainly violate the morals of many (and, in some cases, the majority of) Americans. This, however, still does not make the existence of such partnerships the concern of such morally minded Americans. Just as today Americans have the freedom to select insurance providers who do not provide benefits for abortion services, there would certainly be no shortage of insurance providers who would cater to this large segment of the population by providing insurance to individuals and to couples in "traditional" domestic partnerships only.

This freedom of association would extend, not only to insurance providers, but to religious affiliations as well. Same-sex and multiple-partner domestic arrangements will never be accepted by many religious bodies. Under the current system, however, should such partnerships be "legalized" (i.e., granted the same legal status as opposite-sex marriages), such bodies could eventually find themselves forced into accepting such arrangements that are contrary to their doctrinal positions. For example, a church may wish to excommunicate a homosexual couple who practice against the teachings of that church, but may face certain obstacles to doing so, on the grounds of the legal status of that partnership. Agree or disagree with the legitimacy of such an excommunication, the principle of freedom of association still holds. Such a church should be free to choose who may (and who may not) be a member and have the privileges of membership in that private organization. On the contractual basis I propose, churches would have the option of recognizing, for religious purposes, certain partnership arrangements, while rejection others without concern for the potential of any future legal entanglements. (Churches could, for example, recognize as "valid" only those domestic partnerships that have been confirmed by a public religious ceremony.)

Sadly, even in our society that is so heavily biased toward these traditional domestic arrangements, many marriages do end before death do the couple part. Such endings are rarely clean and tidy, but rather almost always quite messy and painful. Replacing marriage with domestic partnership contracts ensures that, at least insofar as the division of property is concerned, such proceedings would be somewhat simplified. (In no way do I mean to imply that there is any way to make divorce entirely painless.) Just as in the case of a prenuptial agreement, couples would be free to make agreements on how such situations would be handled ahead of time, in anticipation of the occurrence of this sad but common possibility. For example, a couple may agree that they will split all assets according to respective salaries, or they may prefer an arrangement that favors the innocent party by awarding a majority (by some pre-defined ratio) of assets to that member who did not breach the domestic contract. Such breaches could, according to the terms of the agreement, consist of behaviors such as infidelity, domestic abuse, substance abuse, negligence of parental duty, etc. (In such cases, matters of child custody could also be pre-determined to favor the innocent party to the dispute.) Such matters could, then, be settled by much more easily arbitration rather than by means of the court system.

There are, then, no further grounds upon which the continuation of state-sponsored marriages may be justified. The principle of "caveat emptor" would prevail; those who voluntarily enter into such arrangements would do so with full knowledge of the consequences, not only in terms of the rights and responsibilities of the arrangement, but also in terms of the conditions of its termination. The state would have no role to play in such matters whatsoever, which is as it should be. After all, such matters really are nobody's business, and government involvement (with its associated taxation to support the bureaucrats who oversee such matters on the government's behalf) wrongly makes such private matters everybody's business.
 
Oh, and don't forget how marriage licenses started.... black folks had to apply for them if they wanted to marry white folks.
 
gays, welcome to the funhouse!

The unintended consequence of this ruling will be that a whole lot of
gay relationships of long-standing will break up. Heretofore gays and
lesbians have had the cop-out that they couldn't get married. Now they
can. One partner will want to, with all the legal baggage that goes
with it. The other won't. Bye-bye.
 
Oh, and don't forget how marriage licenses started.... black folks had to apply for them if they wanted to marry white folks.

Heh.

Back in the oh-so-moral olden days, interracial marriage was plain and simply illegal.

In good old "Ten Commandments" Alabama, section 102, article 4 of the 1901 state constitution - a law prohibiting "any marriage between any white person and a Negro, or descendant of a Negro" - was finally repealed by a popular vote, in 2001. Even so, only 60% of the Alabamans who made it to the polls voted to repeal the law. A full 40% of them wanted interracial marriage to remain illegal.

Even though the 1967 Supreme Court ruling Loving v. Virginia made State laws against interracial marriage unconstitutional and thereby unenforceable, the fact remains that they were on the books. The folks who pushed them used all the same reasons their descendants use against gay marriage, almost verbatim.

Marriage laws are a sham, an unconstitutional infringement of the State on the basic human right of free association. They are a sham and a perversion, when one group uses them as a tool to arbitrarily deny those rights to another group.

Argue against gay marrtiage all you want. I hold those arguments in the same regard as the retrograde prohibitions against "race mixing". It's nobody else's damn business if two people choose to enter in a civil union, and all the reasons anyone has ever brought against gay (or interracial) marriage has always been bigoted and religiously biased claptrap.
 
Don Galt

If it isn't clear, any law that makes a distinction in how it treats people based on marriage, is unconstitutional. Any law saying what marriage is-- what rights or responsibilities it confers is unconstitutional. (Everyone decides how to manage their own marriage-- if they get divorced, maybe *he* should raise the kids.)

Marriage is a private contract between individuals. Government has no right to say what it can and can't be. And any laws passed by government that restrict marriage based on religious grounds (like the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act) are unconstitutional.
Great! Now what do we do with the idiot children produced by these couplings? After all, there are now no restrictions -- brothers and sisters and mothers and sons can now marry and to Hell with that Oedipus fellow.
 
Great! Now what do we do with the idiot children produced by these couplings?

It is neither my right nor our responsibility to prevent people from having idiot children, if they choose to have them. Just don't ask me to pay for their upbringing or health care.

Besides, it's not that the presence of marriage laws is doing a terribly good job preventing the creation of idiot children.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top