Mauser Actions

[Skofnung]

Hi Folks.

I have an idea for the perfect (for my use) Scout rifle. It will be a long time before I can afford to put this thing together, but it does not hurt to start planning early.

Without going into too many particulars, I want the gun to be based on a Mauser type action. I want quality here, so I am assuming that commercial actions will suit me better than surplus military...

That is, except for stripper clip compatability. I want to be able to use stripper clips with this rig.

So, for those of you that have experience with these things, I have three questions:

1) What would be your choice of actions if price were no object?

2) What would be your "best bang for the buck" choice?

3) What are your experiences with having custom guns built?

Thanks for the help.

 

[dakotasin]

1- dunno.
2- brno 98/22
3- expect it to take longer and cost more than you planned. it will also be the most satisfactory gun in your collection/accumulation if it is thought out well and executed properly.

 

[Drue]

1) Dakota or pre64 M70 ("Mauser type")
Persian Mauser, Argentine 1909, VZ24 or pre war German militatry (real Mauser)

2) last time I looked, Sarco had loose VZ24 and German k98 actions


3) dakotasin hit the nail on the head


Drue

 

[rbernie]

1) 1917 Enfield
2) '93 Turkish rework
3) +1 for Dakotasin's comments

 

[KurtC]

Commercial actions with the stripper clip slot were made by Oberndorf Mauser (1900-1945), Brno (1930-1949), FN and Husqvarna (1940's). Some had a solid left wall, some had the thumb cut.

The same companies also made some fine military rifles as well. Mauser (1930's), Brno (1924-46) and FN (1930-50's). Some of the nicest ones are the FN contract carbines in 7x57, 8x57 and .30-06. Some of the one made for police forces are usually in better condition than military ones.

Prices for the above run $500 and up (and up). Just remember, quality costs money. And all mauser may have the same design, but they were not created equally.

Here is how my 1938 Brno 8x60 ended up. Note the stripper clip slot and the solid left wall.

 

[Jim K]

You have a basic conflict if you want to mount a conventional scope; you can't use the stripper clip feature. (Removing the scope to reload is not practical and risks losing zero or even dropping the scope.) The so-called "scout rifle" uses a long eye-relief scope mounted forward of the receiver; not bad, but it takes getting used to.

An alterative is to choose an action that can be loaded from below with box magazines, then mount the scope in a conventional manner.

My choice of action would be a VZ-24, but most of the rifles have bad barrels, not to mention being in 8mm. Not only is most 8mm ammo corrosive, but when the surplus runs out it may be hard to get. .308 would be a better choice.

Having a rifle custom made will be expensive, and you will probably end up with something just too nice to take out and actually use.

If you don't mind the caliber, get a VZ-24 with a good barrel, mount a long-relief scope ahead of the receiver, saw off the stock foreend and you have a tough, knockaround rifle that can take about anything you or nature can dish out. (Or, rebarrel to .308 using one of the pre-threaded barrels that are fairly cheap.) Of course, Cooper won't approve, since it didn't cost $4000, but who cares.

Jim

 

[Skofnung]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

KurtC, that rifle is beautiful. Simply beautiful.

Jim Keenan, I am planning on "Scouterizing" a bubba'd up No4 Enfield that I picked up a few months back for a knockabout. I need to find a better barrel (and a smith to install it) for it before I start on it though... and that is turning out to be a chore.

Whenever I get around to having this idea of mine made into a real gun, I don't think that I will have any trouble using it hard. I plan on having it built TOUGH. It may end up pretty, but function, corrosion resistance, and accuracy are the main goals.

Here is my vision:

1)The rifle must meet Scout weight or be just slightly heavier.

2)The rifle must have a finish like unto a Glock (Say what you want about the plastic wonder... the finish is awesome.)

3) It must have top quality parts. (Action/Barrel/Trigger/Stock/Optics/ect...)

4) It will have a full action/trigger job (lapped lugs, ect... ect...)

5) It must have two scope mounts. One foreward, one Traditional, both with QD bases. A 2x IER for the foreward mount and a 4-10x for the rear. I would change them out depending on the situation/quarry/area.

6) It will have a butt trap that holds at least one (two is ideal) stripper clip(s).

7) It will have apeture backup sights, the rear of which probably will have to mount on the rear scope base... somehow... $$ChaCHINGbling$$$

8) It will have a 3 point sling.

9) It will NOT have a silly bipod.

10) It will be chambered in .308.

11) The barrel will be 19" long.

In short, the perfect rifle for me. It is gonna be expensive... But in the end I think it will be worth it.

 

[dakotasin]

1- don't know much about scout rifles or their weights, but excepting target and varmint guns, lighter is always better. i am working on a mauser project right now that is moving along nicely, and i might even make my target weight. however, given your desires, and assuming scout rifle = light rifle, i see problems on your horizon...

2- lots of coatings and finishing options available... shouldn't be a problem.

3- parts... well, there's a lot of wiggle room here. the action is whatever it is, and you can't change that w/o changing the rifle. hard to find a 'bad' custom barrel as long as you stick w/ known quantities (douglas, shilen, lw, pac-nor, etc etc). trigger is very subjective. most aftermarket triggers are at least acceptable. stock - well, you'll have to figure out if you want wood or synthetic. regardless of which option you choose, there are huge differences in quality. there is a good reason for why mcmillans are so expensive... optics - lol! i'll leave that one alone... too subjective.

4- this will be taken care of by your 'smith when he installs the barrel. it should go w/o saying.

5- here's where you'll run into serious troubles... in practice, this doesn't make a lot of sense. the gun will feel very differently everytime you handle it just because you switched the sighting platforms around. kind of defeats what i get the feeling this rifle is s'posed to do. i guess iron sights would work ok, but they'll look funny, and if you go w/ quality optics like you say, and a quality mount, it makes it all pretty superfluous.

6- if you go w/ the lightweight option laminate from boyds, this will be easy because you'll already have a deep pocket cut out of the butt.

7- i've already given my opinion...

8- sure.

9- i like bipods...

10- pretty solid choice.

11- never messed w/ a 19" 308...

just be sure you plan well. handle a few specimens that are set up similiarly to what you are looking for to see if this is truly what you want to do. i really don't think a rifle configured this way will work out as you are hoping for... also, most options you add to a rifle will probably add weight, and will likely upset balance...

 

[Drue]

Skofnung,

You might want to check out Broockman:

http://www.brockmansrifles.com/


His Premier Practical Rifle seems to cover most of your bases. I have no personal experience with Brockman but I had found him on the Net. His stuff does look good.

Please let the group here know how your project unfolds.

Drue

 

[cracked butt]

(Removing the scope to reload is not practical and risks losing zero or even dropping the scope.)

I had a rifle a long time ago with a heavy duty set of mounts (might have been a weaver setup) that had spring steel snaps on the right side to alow the scope to be unsnapped and swung out to the left if iron sights were desired.

 

[rbernie]

(Removing the scope to reload is not practical and risks losing zero or even dropping the scope.)

Griffin and Howe would be a good option, albeit a bit spendy.

 

[KurtC]

I can't think of any situation where you have to reload in a hurry while using a scope, unless you are such a poor shot that you really should be carrying something belt-fed.

On such a rifle, you load it and expect to use the iron sights. If a target becomes available that is beyond the use of iron sights, you then snap the scope in place and take the shot.

Attaching the scope for a long shot is much easier than trying to remove one for a near shot. I know most shooters can't envision it, but on this type of rifle the irons are the standard and the scope is a mere accessory.

 

[John Deere]

If you want to build a scout, only 1 mauser action will 'make weight', the G33/40. They are light, rare, beautiful, and, expensive.
The best bang for the buck right now is Sarco`s select grade 98/29 Persian mauser barreled action. The quality of fit and finish is better than anything else you can find today. ( If you decide to rebarrel, pitch the old one my way! )
New England Custom Guns has the rear sight that mounts on a scope mount that you are looking for.
As far as having a custom gun built, I do all my own work, except for barreling. But I can say, that once you start useing a rifle that is built just for you, and not yanked off a rack at Wal-mart, it will spoil you forever.
Regards, Bill

 

[homeka45]

KurtC, wow, beautiful rifle.

 

[KurtC]

I don't have a pic of it, but the barrel (original) is only 21.5" and it makes a handy little carbine with that thin stock. The front and rear sight ramps were removed and NECG ones installed so that interchangeable sights can be used. I did get a bit carried away with the nitre and rust bluing.

 

[Bear Gulch]

VZ24 action or a 98

 

[SRYnidan]

John Deere is right about the G33/40. I have one barreled in 30.06 that my father (a stock maker) made up in the 70's and gave me when I left home.

 

[Bear Gulch]

A google search can help you a ton. I think the place was called lowtech arms they'd build you a custom at a reasonable price with good quality work. Your local smith can nickel and dime you to death.

Or consider using the original 8mm caliber. Loaded properly it is stout enough for any North American game except for large bears.