Maybe a dumb question about Cap and Ball ergonomics.

[DeoreDX]

I've come from a background of shooting semi autos and rifles so this question is partly based around ignorance of my 1851 and single action pistol techniques. When I naturally grip my 1851 Navy the back contour of the grip is pressed firmly in my palm and all 3 lower fingers wrap around the grip and the web between my thumb and palm close to the hammer. With this grip my trigger finger wants to rest naturally with the trigger in the center of the middle part of my finger between the two joints not on the pad like I normally shoot. I don't have overly large hands usually between a size Medium glove or Large (ML in a golf glove) so I don't think big meathooks for hands is the reason. So I have to arch my finger outwards in order to get my finger pad on the trigger. This seems to put my finger at an awkward angle to the trigger. It feels like the top of my finger is supporting the front of the gun and the angle my finger makes wants to pull my finger into the frame instead of pulling the trigger straight back. Gripping lower with just two fingers on the grip with my pinkie curled under the grip I get a better angle to the trigger but it feels very awkward in my hands.

So... how the heck am I supposed to hold this thing?

 

[col.lemat]

Practice until you get something that works

 

[badkarmamib]

I have heard the pinkie under the grip is supposed to be the correct way, but it was always awkward for me, as well, and drew my concentration to the discomfort, and away from the front sight. I just grip it the way that it wants to "fill my hand", so to speak, and try to pull the trigger straight, regardless of where my grip puts my trigger finger.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Pinkie under the grip works best. You'll get used to it after a while. But do experiment to figure out the trigger finger position that produces a trigger pull straight to the rear.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yap, believe it or not, by 1851 the handgun world was still in its infancy stage and the semi-auto grip wouldn't be around for another 50 yrs (+ or -).

It's a bit like a 30 yr old today getting in a Mod.A Ford and having them drive you somewhere. They'd be lucky to ever get it started (without hurting someone!! Lol)

You've got the right idea, just keep at it and it'll fit its self in your hand and soon you'll wonder how you ever shot a semi !!!!

Have fun!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

 

[MikeJackmin]

I have the same problem with most modern pistols and revolvers too. The 'high grip' that is so often recommended simply does not work for me.

The curled pinky works great with single action revolvers and compact auto pistols. Get a spare set of grips and sand them down as you like. Once they are the right shape, touch them up with some linseed oil and you're good to go.

 

[expat_alaska]

I don't have large hands but have long, skinny fingers. With 3 fingers on the grip, the pad of my trigger finger contacts the trigger at a slight downward angle. It is not awkward nor uncomfortable, but since you mentioned shooting semi-auto pistols (I have 1911s), the hog-leg grip of nearly any SA Colt revolver (or Italian repro, or Ruger BH's) is not even close to the ergonomics of a 1911 or 1911A1, and the angle of the grip has more of an impact on the trigger finger position.

I would go with col.lemat's suggestion.

 

[piettakid]

The "plowhandle" grip of most single action guns was created 150 years ago when handguns were shot from the hip. You are supposed to place your hand high on the grip and the little finger is supposed to be on the grip too. The trigger finger is NOT meant to be parallel to the barrel. Held that way the gun just naturally points straight ahead and is very accurate - if you shoot from the hip.

 

[44 Dave]

A single action trigger doesn't need much "squeeze" like a double action or semi auto. Mine all have about 2 lb. and no creep, just think fire and they shoot straight.

 

[Branko_D]

Not having large hands myself, I experimented with three grip styles.

First, the "high grip" where my hand is as high as the hammer back position will allow. The benefit is that the hold is more firm and recoil control is easy. Shots go a bit lower as a result. The problem is that it means my finger is at an angle to the trigger, and I have to "push it out" to use the pad of my finger. After some experimenting I decided I did not like it.

Second, the "low" grip where my hand is at the lowest possible position while still keeping all my fingers on the grip. It is a more "natural" hold and also weaker in terms of recoil control, so shots go up a bit as the gun rolls more readily in the hand. More or less this is a natural way to hold the gun as you draw it from the holster and recocking the hammer onehanded is easy. Finger sits at a more natural angle.

Last is the "pinky under grip" hold. Better recoil control and more stability of the gun are it's benefits. However my fingers are a tad short for this grip style. I struggle to cock the hammer on a Remington like this and struggle to position the trigger finger correctly.

In the end I decided I'd stick with the "low" grip. It is kind of hard to explain without pictures, really.

 

[LoneGoose]

My Solution

When I first bought a C&B revolver, I wasn't sure which model I wanted. Went to Cabela's and handled the 1851 and the 1860. The first thing I noticed was that the 1851's grip felt small in my hand and that the 1860 fit me perfectly. Looking at them closely, I realized that the 1860's grip frame was about 1/4" longer than the 1851's. That made a world of difference to me. On the 1860, the heel of the grip frame rested just past the meat of the heel of my hand. So I bought the 1860 (with no later regrets). I later noticed that some people refer to the two different grip sizes as the "Navy" grip and the "Army" grip.

Fast forward to my purchase of a Uberti 1873 Cattleman and a Uberti R-M Conversion. The Conversion had the large grip frame and the Cattleman had the small grip frame. Both didn't balance well in my hand. I swapped grip frames on them and now have a perfectly fitting Cattleman and a perfectly balanced Conversion.

The general advice I found on THR is that you can easily swap grip frames between models from the same manufacturer. Or, if you have the time, you could make a set of oversized "boot" grips that would fill your hand better. I caution against buying an aftermarket grip frame that is not from the gun's manufacturer unless you want to spend a lot of time finishing and fitting it.

THR rocks.

 

[tahoe2]

I have been shooting single actions since I started shooting, and for this conversation they are all the same,
yet frame/grip sizes vary from the little 22's to the peacemaker's. As for cap and ball revolver grips, I wouldn't over think it,
just do what's comfortable; you will shoot better, if your comfortable and relaxed.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Keep also in mind that in the 1860's, the average American was about 10% smaller in stature, arm length, finger length etc. A true to historical size grip would naturally be a bit small for a modern person.

I had a similar problem with most pistol grips, ie too small. It wasn't until I started substituting grips with larger ones that my scores got significantly better.

 

[BCRider]

Resting on the fold of the trigger finger is what my large hands do as well. For this style of gun it's perfectly normal.

I wear L or XL size gloves so keep this in mind with the following.

When I started out I wanted to hold up high like you're doing. The end of the hammer was pretty much resting or darn near resting on the web of my hand. What I found is that this made the gun shoot strongly to the left. I tried to compensate by twisting my hand around so the gun wasn't naturally aligned with my forearm. I got it to shoot to POA but the whole thing was a total mess and highly inconsistent what with one factor relying on the other to cancel each other out.

In fact here's a picture of me holding my Super Blackhawk back when I was trying to perfect this mistaken way of holding these guns.



I finally dropped my hand lower on the grip so that the web of my hand was folded over the lower side of the bend at the top of the back strap. And this left my pinky barely touching the corner of the pistol butt to where it wasn't a big deal to put it under the butt of the grips.

Lo and Behold! The clouds parted and in the distance I could hear the dulcet tones of angels singing and my gun suddenly started shooting right spot on with no hand gymnastics.

Folks often go on about how these Colt "plowshare" grips are such a natural pointer and how they shoot so well. To that I say "BALDERDASH". They are NOT that obvious about how to hold them. Especially if you come from a semi auto mindset like you and I do that taught us to hold high on the gun. So don't feel like you're the only one to have gone through all this. I'm right there beside you with the bad results in my past to show for it.

Try dropping your grip so the web of your hand folds over the middle of that turn at the top of the back strap. Put your pinky on the edge or down under the butt end. Whichever feels better. Likely as not the trigger will still be on the fold of your finger tip. But that's OK if that is what it takes to get a nice directly back pull.

Try some dry firing and watch for the sight picture jumping to either side at the break just like we do with semi autos. Adjust your trigger finger if needed to compensate until you get a break and fall that doesn't jog the sight picture.

Then go out, load up and enjoy making some smoke.

 

[44 Dave]

With the pictured hold isn't your thumb wrong to cock the hammer
I just grab the plow handle so my thumb is right on the hammer and trigger finger is right then the rest of the fingers know where to grip.
Once or twice a year I will shoot a clip through a semi auto, have a Colt '03 pocket.

 

[BCRider]

Dave, very much right. Which is why I offerred it as an example of a bad way. But it sounds a bit like that's how Deore is holding them too. Which is why I'm showing him the "wrong" way.

 

[MIOkie]

DeoreDX-

You now have the perfect "excuse" to add a '60 Army Colt to your family.... and a '58 Remington as well, and then maybe a....

Have fun...!

 

[4v50 Gary]

PiettaKid - where did you pickup/read that info about the plow handle grip? Just curious.

 

[Noz]

When you reach down for your gun place your finger on the trigger and your thumb on the hammer, then every thing else will go where it is supposed to be.

Don't try to over think our guns. The easiest and smoothest way is the right way for you.

 

[J-Bar]

Hip Shooting

Hip shooting is mostly Hollywood myth.

Court records document that Wild Bill Hickok used a supported grip and took time to aim in his duel with Dave Tutt. Andy Thomas's painting has been verified by historians:

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

these replicas are pretty much for all intents and purposes the same size as they were 150 yr ago.
Men ( normal shooters back then) were smaller than we are today.
the fingers were a bit shorter but stockier, as was rest of the hand and the body.

Modern shooting techniques suggest using the pad of the finger and thus guns are made for that today.

Not so back then.
so for you. do what works best for you. cock the finger out and use the pad,
or adapt and use more of the finger.
It's not rocket science guys. it's what works for you.