MD - Rountable of Gun Rights Groups

[MikeK]

Friends;

The next MCSM meeting will be a very special affair with an extensive
Round-Table discussion on Maryland political action items. See the
details below.

The meeting is next week, Tuesday March 14, 7PM at the Wheaton
American Legion Post. A map is shown on the MCSM web site at
<http://www.mcsm.org/location.html>. When entering from the parking
lot, ring the door bell inside the first door to be buzzed through
the second door. Please sign in the guest book just inside the door
and indicating you are visiting MCSM. Proceed through the bar and
back game room to the stairs down to the Post meeting room.

The meeting should run less than two hours. Brief MCSM business will
be conducted prior to the Round Table discussion.

-----------------------------------------------
A round table discussion will be moderated by MCSM. It will feature
several Gun-rights activist in Maryland; representatives of clubs and
groups, web site owners, legislative activist and others. The
audience of interested parties will no doubt generate a lively
question and answer session.

The Round-Table topics will include;

1) Is there apathy of gun owners in Maryland? Why do they not take
part in the political struggle? What can be done to overcome this?

2) What legislative strategy can be used to create some pro-gun
progress in Maryland? What legislative strategy should be enhanced
or AVOIDED and under what conditions.

3) How can various pro-gun groups and individuals be kept apprised of
the general strategy of each other in the state and focus their
efforts so as to HELP each other?

4) What activities can accomplish this.
----------------------------------------

Now is the chance to both learn and contribute to the political
action struggle in Maryland. Many activists have been invited to
express their goals and tactics and to explain why or why not certain
actions are or should be taken. This is the first time such a dialog
has been attempted and it will be very informative to see who attends
and what strategies are discussed. More such exchanges will
certainly result for future meetings and events.

We will be planning some FUN EVENTS for this summer. You must come
to the meeting to take part in this planning!

 

[Spot77]

My wife works Tuesday nights, but I might be able to make arrangements if I can recover sufficiently from the brutal 10 hours of hearings today. :banghead:

 

[Helmetcase]

Ugh, what a day...but yeah I'm planning on going.

After you guys left, I talked with Casey from the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence...and he said he really wouldn't have such a problem with CCW if we would agree to a training requirement. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

We could have saved everyone about 8 hours of agony. We'll compromise for now, agree to a training and background check regimen, and they'll agree to CCW rights for law abiding individuals...heck, if we could get the anti groups to pony up to the table with that, some Democrats might actually sign on when they realized they didn't have to worry about Ceasefire and CSGU getting on their cases...who knows. Something to write about I guess. I'll have a write up tomorrow on PGP, but I'm just too tired right now.

 

[Helmetcase]

Yesterday was gun bill day in Maryland. Here's my write up.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

It was funny watching Neil and Doug Duncan continually confuse auto and semi-auto weapons; it was also funny watching one of the Ceasefire folks gripe about how semiautos were actually more accurate and thus more dangerous than fully auto weapons–which several folks noted put the antis in the uncomfortable position of being asked why not approve full auto weapons instead of semi, if public safety is the concern?

so Sonja Wells and Tyranny Oneil are replaced this year with DOUG DUNCAN?

interesting

 

[Spot77]

Duncan was a babbling idiot. His sources were non-existant, and he didn't know the answer to most questions asked of him.

He was woefully unprepared and I think Ceasefire owes him an apology for dragging him into the hearings.

 

[Norton]

Too bad I couldn't see Duncan when I was testifying. Apparently I got a bit of a rise out of him when I said that his testimony about the sniper shootings was proof of why the AWB doesn't work because those shootings took place DURING the ferderal AWB

 

[Helmetcase]

His contention was the Malvo and Muhammad wouldn't have been able to steal their Bushmaster if there was an AWB; that was a particularly stupid claim, as was pointed out that you can still buy them in VA...where they did their shooting half the time anyway!!!

Duncan must be hung like an elephant...cause he stepped on his johnson so often I thought he was tap dancing.

I also liked Sue Peschin's remark that they couldn't have concealed a hunting rifle in the trunk of a car; yeah, except for the fact that my hunting rifle is a Savage .270, which I can assure you is smaller than an AR15.

 

[Helmetcase]

Also, Duncan and Quinter trotted out the venerable "LA Bank Robbers with AK's" example. Remember when I pointed out Quinter's hypocrisy on that one? You'll notice they didn't talk as much about that one...because if AR15s were banned in LA that day, the police couldn't have commandeered them from a gun shop to stop the bad guys!

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for the updates on the hearings. Sorry I couldn't make it this year (problems with mom).

As of yesterday Purtillo had not responded to the invite. Several people from marylandshallissue have accepted. It should be an interesting meeting. Hope to see some of you there.

 

[Norton]

I'm going to try to make it. I'm at school until at least 6pm so I might as well make a night of it in the part of the world.

 

[MikeK]

BUMP

 

[Spot77]

Hey Mike - can you post a summary here after the meeting? I wish I could make it, but I've been to so many gun meetings this year already that my wife would be TICKED if I asked her to change her work schedule tonight.

Plus I want to donate a little $$ to MCSM to make up for what one of it's former members stole.

 

[Helmetcase]

I'll be sure to take notes as well. Is Purtilo going to come? Probably not; I really get the picture he resents all the other folks playing in his sandbox. What's more...we're actually making progress without him, so he's probably only going to withdraw more.

 

[MikeK]

Between me and helmetcase we should have it covered. I don't write as well as he does though. I doubt that Purtillo will show up.

Bob Culver organized a meeting like this several years ago. It was great! Lots of enthusiastic people.

 

[MikeK]

Meeting Summary

It was nice to meet helmetcase in person. The meeting was disappointing but still worthwhile. 14 people in attendance compared with ~ 50 the last time something like this was held. At least 200 people were invited, not including posts made here and on other forums. Of course King Jim didn't show up. MCSM, MSI and MCDL were the three major participants. The three topics discussed: (Some of them cross over.)

1. Apathy among gun-owners? Well the attendance sort of spoke to that. On a positive note some of the suggestions made were to get a cause everyone could get behind such as CCW or the 'bathroom' law.

2. Legislative strategy. Many good ideas - I'm sure I've left off a few. Try to support good legislators and oust as many bad ones as possible. Limited resources to tackle too many - Quinter and Garagiola are two for next election. Gianetti is one worth backing. Play offense, not defense.


Emphasize 'Safety' in any legislation. Outreach to non gunowners - free gun safety classes at malls, literature handouts at intersections or wherever. Get the youth involved. Billboards. Pictures of women, youth participating in the shooting sports. Civil rights approach.

3. Keeping other pro-gun groups in the loop? The idea of an ombudsman to work among the various groups was discussed. I'll tell group B part of your plan, but keep the details 'top secret' and then you can tell me your plan and I'll relay it the same way to groups A and C. Although it is a great idea (IMHO) no one at the meeting thought it would really work, including me.

Get the sportsman (Western MD) involved. Some of the thoughts I have in the legislative section cross over here. Basicly, get as many people, especially non shooters, women and youth educated rather than brainwashed.

That's it for now - Helmetcase can add or edit if he wishes.

 

[Helmetcase]

Hey, good roundup Mike.

I thought it was a good meeting, we got sidetracked here and there, but the key thing is the disparate groups in MD are starting to work together. It's unfortunate that Sandy Abrams, John Josselyn, Purtilo, etc didn't come...but I'm not all together unsurprised.

The key things I saw were the need to focus on a couple simple issues that really get people interested and moving. CCW seems to be the one.

The other issues are important, but nobody is going to drive to Annapolis, call their legislators day in and day out, or organize against our political enemies over microstamping or the right to take a piss on the way home from the range with your pistol in the trunk.

 

[Hawk]

Those of you fighting the good fight in Maryland have my admiration and best wishes.

The two non-contiguous years I spent in Rockville were educational. A CDNN catalog showing up at work provoked a reaction more appropriate to a catalog advertising child exploitation. The expression on the receptionist's face would not have been different had I been wearing a 42 ounce maggot for a necktie.

Disconcerting.

Good luck to you all.

 

[MikeK]

Addendum - John Jocelyn (AGC) planned to attend, but had medical problems. Frank Krasner (Silverado Gun shows) was interested, but had a prior committment.

 

[Spot77]

Hawk - thanks for the good words.

I can understand people not being able to make it; this has been a trying year for all activists. Between lobbying all day, testifying, driving to and attending all of the pre-legislative meetings I'm sure people are getting worn down.

Every year we see a few new faces, and every year the same old faces look older. We need a huge influx of young and energetic people. I'll admit that this wears me down year after year; fighting AWB's, trying to get good bills passed.

 

[Lemon328i]

Folks like John Josselyn and Jim Purtillo have been doing a great job of holding the line and trying to restore gun rights, but adding new, fresh, young faces won't help without a major strategic change.

MD needs a framework to build on and constantly fighting for CCW isn't going to win. Better to fight to get a simple amendment added to the state Constitution along the lines of "The fundamental right to defense of home, family and self shall not be infringed". No added clauses, no added "whereases", no mention of firearms.

Get something that no one can say no to, get it passed, then get shall-issue CCW by arguing that may-issue violates said simple Constitutional amendment. Even the most vehemently anti-gun judge could not ethically state that may-issue would be constitutional if you can be denied when you are applying specifically for "defense of home, family and self".

 

[Spot77]

Better to fight to get a simple amendment added to the state Constitution along the lines of "The fundamental right to defense of home, family and self shall not be infringed". No added clauses, no added "whereases", no mention of firearms.

That was originally our thought this year too. I contacted Senator Jimeno about sponsoring the transportation bill ("McDonald's bill"....would allow for stops with regulated firearms), and he insisted that there was an agreement that no gun bills, good or bad would be presented this year.

Then of course, wouldn't you know it...Quinter's AWB surfaces.

We testified and lobbied for ALL of the good bills, and ditto for arguing against the AWB.

If nothing moves this year, so be it. Quinter et al are afraid of advancing the AWB cuz' we'll get ccw attached (notice that the number of sponsors for the AWB is HALF of what it had last year)and vice versa; people are afraid to push ccw because it could get ammended with an AWB. But we still have to push for it. we've gotten more exposure and GREAT media coverage this year. Hopefully it's educated some people. It takes a push to gain ground, so we keep pushing hoping to gain ground.....even if the reality may be that it's going nowhere this year. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.....and a few more cliches' that I can't think of right now.

 

[Lemon328i]

If nothing moves this year, so be it. Quinter et al are afraid of advancing the AWB cuz' we'll get ccw attached (notice that the number of sponsors for the AWB is HALF of what it had last year)and vice versa; people are afraid to push ccw because it could get ammended with an AWB. But we still have to push for it. we've gotten more exposure and GREAT media coverage this year. Hopefully it's educated some people. It takes a push to gain ground, so we keep pushing hoping to gain ground.....even if the reality may be that it's going nowhere this year. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.....and a few more cliches' that I can't think of right now.

Yes, we might be able to get shall-issue CCW at the expense of an AWB this year, but what preserves the CCW law should Gov Ehrlich lose re-election? We'd then have an AWB and lose CCW (because you know that Duncan or O'Malley would fight for CCW repeal in a heartbeat) probably in the very next legislative session. Do you think there would much opposition?

We need to win the culture war first before pushing for shall-issue CCW or it will simply evaporate when a Democrat takes the Governor's office again. We need every man, woman and child in this state to know in their heart of hearts that only they can protect themselves and that mental preparation (and a quality firearm!) are the best means for that protection. Right now, the vast majority of sheeple have no idea that law enforcement has ZERO obligation to protect the individual.

 

[Spot77]

Yes, we might be able to get shall-issue CCW at the expense of an AWB this year

Nope, never, nada, ain't going to happen. Trading one right for another is of no benefit to anybody. It's the leverage that keeps the equilibrium.

If the AWB were to gain legs, we would get ccw attached. Nobody wants it the other way around. Either piece of legislation would get killed if the opposite issue were ammended to it.

CCW scares ceasefire and company WAY more than scary looking rifles (of which they obviously have NO knowledge).

 

[Helmetcase]

Lemon, you sound like a Purtilo clone. I'm tired of people repeating the same bullhockey argument; you seem like a smart dude so I don't want to smack you around for it, but you're way, way off base. The progun delegates have made it clear to us that our persistent CCW efforts are the only reason they haven't rammed an AWB or worse through. You're simply wrong in your premise that a consistent CCW effort isn't important. Drop the Tripwire for a minute and consider the facts; not only are our friendly delegates reminding us that what we're doing is important, but it also helps do the main thing we need to do to get that cultural shift going that you were correctly speaking of--it gets the issue up front and in the media.

Like it or not, nobody gets out of bed for microstamping, BFing, or even a RKBA amendment--even if they should. CCW is THE issue that gets people busy, because its the one most likely to help you actually protect your life as you conduct your daily business. Polls have consistently shown its the most likely issue we can use to get that cultural shift underway.

You're simply wrong that the CCW isn't a good idea and vital to the gun rights clause. There's no nicer way to say it. So please can that shyte, will ya?

I agree that the RKBA amendment would be nice, but your stance isn't pragmatic or grounded in the reality of the facts on the ground. The delegates see amending the state constitution as way, way more radical a step than Dwyers simple repeal of finding bill, I'm pretty sure the RKBA amendment bill had fewer cosponsors, and is much less likely to see the light of day on the floor.

CCW is THE fight we need to be having.