Medellin v. Texas - Your RKBA Decided By World Court and the President

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I know that this has been raised before but where does the Supreme Court derive the power to change or even interpret the constitution??

I know they can interpret and rule on the constitutionality of laws in light of the constitution. But that is different than mis-interpreting or changing the constitution itself.
 
True, they don’t actually change the wording but deciding what it means can have the same effect. Basing decisions strictly on literal interpretation is one thing. All too often personal beliefs/agendas cloud their judgments.

Look at the 2nd Amendment debate. I’ve heard it said that “no intellectually honest person could construe it as anything but an individual right”. Personally, I agree with this. However, there are many judges out there that claim it to be a ‘collective right’. Go figure......
 
Elza says:
It (along with others) should protect us. But it all rests with USSC. Once something gets the court’s blessing we’re pretty much out of options. Think about some of the things that are being done in the name of Homeland Security. Mention HS and suddenly anything and everything is acceptable.

Our history is full of options exercised by other branches of government and the people to defy USSC decisions.

The state of Georgia refused to release Samuel Worcester from prison contrary to a decision by the USSC (Worcester v. Georgia) and Andrew Jackson refused to enforce the order.

Abraham Lincoln in his first inaugural address pointed to a deference, rather than an absolute deferral, to Supreme Court decision noting:
I do not forget the position assumed by some, that constitutional questions are to be decided by the Supreme Court; nor do I deny that such decisions must be binding in any case, upon the parties to a suit; as to the object of that suit, while they are also entitled to very high respect and consideration in all parallel cases by all other departments of the government. And while it is obviously possible that such decision may be erroneous in any given case, still the evil effect following it, being limited to that particular case, with the chance that it may be over-ruled, and never become a precedent for other cases, can better be borne than could the evils of a different practice. At the same time, the candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned their government into the hands of that eminent tribunal. Nor is there in this view any assault upon the court or the judges. It is a duty from which they may not shrink, to decide cases properly brought before them; and it is no fault of theirs if others seek to turn their decisions to political purposes.

In other matters Jackson stated his reasoning behind a separation of powers in the Constitution by saying
The Congress, the Executive, and the Court must each for itself be guided by its own opinion of the Constitution. . . . The opinion of the judges has no more authority over Congress than the opinion of Congress has over the judges, and on that point the President is independent of both. The authority of the Supreme Court must not, therefore, be permitted to control the Congress or the Executive when acting in their legislative capacities, but to have only such influence as the force of their reasoning may deserve.

Much earlier Jefferson expressed a similar view that
a decision of the Supreme Court, though it bound the parties to the case, did not bind the executive to the rule of law announced in the decision

The Dred Scott case shows that decisions by the court are not necessarily wise, principled or followed since African-Americans are full citizens today and, despite the Court's Plessy v. Ferguson decision, segregation in schools is not legal and, despite the Slaughter-House Cases decision by the Court, we have been extending the Bill of Rights as binding on the states as intended by the Fourteenth Amendment.

These latter case show the effects of more than legal argument in Courts -- rather they show what can be done by the People demonstrating sustained and intense disagreement with Court through popular demonstrations and the elections of President and Congressmen dedicated to opposing Court’s interpretation of Constitution.

It isn't a "smart-a$$ed comment" to point out that the People own their Constitution, not the USSC or the President or Congress. Franklin said our government is a republic if we can keep it. He didn't say it was a republic if the Supreme Court let us keep it. To the question what is there in the Constitution to prevent a Supreme Court from doing wrong when the Supreme Court claims the power to interpret the Constitution?, the answer is as it has always been: The will of the People. We hope the best from the Court for they are all in the same boat with us -- but we should always be prepared to fight if necessary to protect the republic.

Fighting may be as simple as "demonstrating sustained and intense disagreement" though the election process or it may mean more. Obviously, it is in our best interest to prevail in the Court, but failing that, by elections.
 
I agree with what you are saying in the above post. Certainly there are ways to resist the government. My point was that the government doesn’t always follow the Constitution. When it doesn’t we are out of options other than to resist in some manner.

What I disagree with is those that say. ”The Government can’t do (whatever) because the Constitution says …………..” “Do as I say, not as I do” is often applicable to our Government.

<Irrelevant low road language removed by Art>
 
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Phil Lee

Excellent post with the quotes from Lincoln, Jackson, and Jefferson. It's nice to find out I'm not alone nor the first to figure out that the Supreme Court does not have the power to "interpret" the Constitution and must abide it just like the rest of us and the other two branches of the Union. I have no problem abiding the Constitution, but it sure seems like the three branches of the Union and several of the states' legislatures can't read - or don't care is more like it...

Woody

Those of us who are armed are in the way of something terrible. I don't know what it is, but it is damned scared of us. Let's keep the fear in its heart, not ours. B.E. Wood
 
Bart said:
Since it seems like a lot of THR members have so much spare time on their hands they can spend it fighting threats that I consider to be of dubious relation to RKBA (LOST Treaty, studies on terrorism, etc.), I thought they might appreciate something that does bear relation to RKBA and is being decided by the Supreme Court even as I type this - Medellin v. Texas.
Just because you think these things are of dubious relation to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms doesn't mean they are.


Bart said:
And really, that is the key point to all of the "maybe one day if all of these things happened in a row we would be in trouble" threads. The initial bill isn't the problem so long as you keep the majority of representatives appreciative of your rights or scared of your vote.

It is when we fail to keep them nervous of our voting power that we have to worry - and at that point, they won't need "studies on terrorism" or similar subterfuge to achieve their goals - they will have votes to do what they want.

You are trusting a lot of the possibilities for the future upon keeping a majority of Congress Critters - or more importantly, operatives in some agency - in line with the threat of losing votes. There is no need if you can keep legislation like "maybe one day if all of these things happened in a row we would be in trouble" off the books that would give them the "loophole" to run amok with in the first place. You would give these people in power too much leeway, too much opportunity to yield to temptation.

You can more or less control their rhetoric before an election - forcing them to say what they think you want to hear to garner your vote - but after the election, all bets are off.

Bill Clinton promised a "middle class" tax cut during his campaign. He backed off of that after he won the election, even before he took office! I can count all the politicians I trust on one hand.

All this said, I do agree that this Medellin v. Texas case does bode an ill wind if Medellin wins. The sovereignty of the Union goes out the window.

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. Governments come and go, but your rights live on. If you wish to survive government, you must protect with jealous resolve all the powers that come with your rights - especially with the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Without the power of those arms, you will perish with that government - or at its hand. B.E. Wood
 
There is no need if you can keep legislation like "maybe one day if all of these things happened in a row we would be in trouble" off the books that would give them the "loophole" to run amok with in the first place.

Woody, the only place there is a loophole in LOST or in the other legislation you defended. None of the legislation you have mentioned has any power on its own to open a loophole of any kind in RKBA. At best, they can only be used to try and justify additional legislation in the future. Thus my original point. Considering how often we discuss the legislative process here, it is disappointing to see so many people with no understanding of how it works.
 
Bart
Whether we see things the same way or fail to agree on what's important, we do have all bases covered, wouldn't you agree? We may each reserve the right to say "Told you so" later on. There are many hills we shall both be fighting on, and one or the other must cover the flanks, if not both.

Woody

Those of us who are armed stand in the way of something terrible. I don't know what it is, but it is damned scared of us. Let's keep the fear in its heart, not ours. B.E. Wood
 
Perhaps I am a touch naive here, but I don't see it that way. The states are just gonna have to claim the power. States are going to have to be willing to tell the UN (and effectively, the Fedgov), to go screw themselves on this issue and many others if they want to keep any modicum of authority.

This is not (and the UN is not) about rule of law. It's about rule of force. Who has it and who is willing to wield it.

I'd love to kick the UN out of New York. I'd love to riot the streets and sell the UN Building to the highest bidder. But it ain't gonna happen (atleast not without a lot of water going under the proverbial bridge). I'll be happy with just making sure Missouri is able to tell the UN to shove it without having Washington cut our highway funding.

But, you know, the states have been in limbo since the Civil War. They're either going to have to claim some power back, or become administrative districts alone.
 
But, you know, the states have been in limbo since the Civil War. They're either going to have to claim some power back, or become administrative districts alone.

Become?

Only the really large and powerful states (NY, CA, TX) or independent minded (MT, VT) assert themselves beyond what the Fed allots them these days. Everyone else might as well be in provinces.
 
While what you say is true after a fashion, Titan6, there are stress fractures forming. The invasion of our Southwest, the fact that the fedgov takes alot from people while distributing the goodies in extremely inequitable ways.... Yes, the really large and powerfull states have alot of say, but, only because they wish to control the people of the other, less powerfull states (a situation, the Constitution was supposed to nullify).

Notice those small independent minded states have less people? It's the same conflict as we had in the beginning that led to a bicameral legislature, state body elections of Senators, and the electoral college.

Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, New Hampshire, and Vermont are still able to flip the bird because of the remnants of the 10th Amendment. As I said, we'll either need a resurrection or a situation similar to modern Russia where there isn't even the semblance of regional or local control anymore.

I'm on the side of state power, but most of the people aren't because they are uninformed, and most of the larger businesses (esp. those dependent on fedgov welfare, ie the military contractors, and holders of monopolies) are against it.

Nevertheless, it'll come to a head.
 
There would very possibly be several to numerous small armed uprisings throughout the country, and hypothetically speaking of course, hopefully the insurgents would unite and make it a big armed uprising to reinstitute our Constiturion as the SUPREME law of our land.

Do not think this cannot happen, it has started to in smaller ways in England. The English cannot even enter their country with a British passport anymore, they need a Euro passport. Their other rights and laws are being screwed over by the EU badly. Bush wants it here with mexico and Canada or so it has been hinted. NAFTA was the start. The dismantling of the U.S. Customs Service and Immigration and Naturalization Service after 9/11 was another step. The Mexican illegals another. The Mexican truckers another. We need to elect a real conservative into office on foreign policy issues, and on constitutional rights issues.

All the best,
GB
 
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